Earlier quoted context omitted.
The mind, it boggles. On a long enough timeline he'll probably cite this comment chain as proof you were unable to respond to his concerns, like everyone else who's ever tried.
Oh he's already done that when I explained to him how stuff like PureBoot has circular logic and doesn't actually work on Qubes forum already. Unfortunately he will just ignore every single counter argument ever made and blindly believe these companies because their marketing material has "freedom" and "FOSS" in it.
Original GrapheneOS responses to WIRED fact checker
321–330 of 343 posts
Re: Original GrapheneOS responses to WIRED fact checker
#322Earlier quoted context omitted.
Everything Micay said in that linked thread was and remains correct. You again fail to address what was incorrect in his comment. Going on to later ask people "what is correct about it?" is rhetorically disingenuous at best. But as you consistently slide any adjacent topic you can into a discussion about the Librem 5 (no matter how tortured a segue), let's go with that and revisit it. I looked at your puri.sm link, a…
Not entirely sure if the chip they are using (WM8962) can be reconfigured as a mic or not... it probably can't. But yes, the speaker is still active even when the mic is toggle off. Everything else is pretty much the argument though - who buys a phone with a microphone killswitch so good that for it to actually function you must also flip the other killswitches to kill both wifi and cellular connection? A microphone…
strcat said the opposite.
We can't be both right. According to the docs and schematics, I'm right. You need a really good proof for the opposite.
Re: Original GrapheneOS responses to WIRED fact checker
#323Earlier quoted context omitted.
> there is nothing that GrapheneOS or Micay says regarding the Librem or Pinephone that are inaccurate. This is completely false: > Their microphone kill switch also doesn't prevent audio recording
> This is completely false: >> Their microphone kill switch also doesn't prevent audio recording More dangerous advice. The microphone kill switch prevents audio recording via the mic, not via the sensors or speaker. A Librem 5 user needing to secure against audio attacks would need to switch all kill switches off, not just the mic one (by Librem 5's own estimation), but would still be vulnerable to the speaker. The…
This is indeed a misunderstanding, again. Reliable protection is possible - this is all I wanted to say. Not everybody means "all sensors" when they say "microphone". I took the phrase literally.
Re: Original GrapheneOS responses to WIRED fact checker
#324Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
The author of that blog got mad we didn't want to implement a feature they wished for. Their duplicate issue was closed and later deleted and they made a public drama out of it for... what reason? Let me tell you something. I personally reached out to them just a few weeks ago. I didn't argue, I didn't blame them. That was not my intention and I communicated that clearly. Those were not empty words, I went into it wi…
Re: Original GrapheneOS responses to WIRED fact checker
#325Earlier quoted context omitted.
Mental health and wellness issues in high tech research and development are everywhere. I would suggest that you focus on the product and what it can/cannot do for you.
I trust you didn't mean it that way, but it's totally improper to go to speculations about mental health in response to discussions about communication styles and maturity. While I appreciate the second line and think it's generally the right answer with FOSS projects, your speculation poisons the well.
That quotation is from another comment in this discussion. Sadly, it is the sort of personal attack on his mental state that has been commonplace here at HN and elsewhere for a long time. I caution all to avoid such commentary. My long experience in tech r&d has firmly convinced me that mental health and wellness challenges are widespread, and should not be weaponized. I hope that clarifies my comment for you.
Re: Original GrapheneOS responses to WIRED fact checker
#326Earlier quoted context omitted.
No true Scotsman. It’s sad to see this childishness around what should be an important project.
The point being made is if the project and code were important to you, you wouldn’t be judging it based on the founder’s social media habits…just how it runs, and if it continues to do that year after year. Spoiler, it’s great, and will continue on.
All the people basically defending this or saying it's not an issue only makes it worse.
It's a perfect example of the problem: a founder is a leader, and a leader's behavior spreads and can infect the team and community.
Re: Original GrapheneOS responses to WIRED fact checker
#327Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not entirely sure if the chip they are using (WM8962) can be reconfigured as a mic or not... it probably can't. But yes, the speaker is still active even when the mic is toggle off. Everything else is pretty much the argument though - who buys a phone with a microphone killswitch so good that for it to actually function you must also flip the other killswitches to kill both wifi and cellular connection? A microphone…
I don't understand you. All I said was that using three kill switches 100% protects you from any listening and tracking. strcat said the opposite. We can't be both right. According to the docs and schematics, I'm right. You need a really good proof for the opposite.
I don't even feel like arguing against the absurdity of your arguments anymore. This is my last attempt at dumping it down a notch:
A "microphone killswitch" is supposed to protect the user against having their convos being snooped on when it's toggled and still be able to use the phone in a meaningful manner. A "microphone killswitch" that doesn't really function on its own and requires turning the entire device into a brick is non-fuctional for all practical purposes.
I might as well just invent a "microphone killswitch" that requires people to pull out the battery to make sure that they are not snooped on at that point.
Re: Original GrapheneOS responses to WIRED fact checker
#328Earlier quoted context omitted.
Oh he's already done that when I explained to him how stuff like PureBoot has circular logic and doesn't actually work on Qubes forum already. Unfortunately he will just ignore every single counter argument ever made and blindly believe these companies because their marketing material has "freedom" and "FOSS" in it.
On Qubes forum, you had replies from far more knowledgeable people than me. You never could answer to them. You only talk about the lack of security of Pureboot and never showed the code breaking it. "Talk is cheap, show me the code".
I did reply to them plenty of times. Here you go doing the exact same thing again - ignoring 100% of what's being said, then claiming "no one can respond".
> You only talk about the lack of security of Pureboot and never showed the code breaking it.
If you think a piece of code is needed to understand why it's a joke, then I don't even understand what is wrong with you. LMAO. The whole thing is conceptually botched, and they pretty much admitted as much.
1. Boot block performs measurements of itself, its settings and everything down the chain for attestation.
2. There's nothing protecting the boot block.
3. A malicious boot block can lie about measurements.
4. If the goal is to defend against an attacker who tampers with the BIOS chip - then it fails at doing so miserably because an attacker can just use a boot block that lies about the measurements.
Seriously, what good is showing you the code if you don't even conceptually understand how the thing works?
You know, there is a famous saying: A farmer does not need to know how to lay eggs to know whether an egg is good or bad. In our case, the egg is already rotten from the get-go. This is not a "Ohhh something has such bad code I can attack it using XYZ method, wait and see!" situation. This is a situation where "Your logic doesn't even make any sense to begin with."
Perhaps, just perhaps, you can benefit from just spending 5 minutes thinking a bit about how the whole thing actually works at a very high level and read what I said above.
Re: Original GrapheneOS responses to WIRED fact checker
#329Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't understand you. All I said was that using three kill switches 100% protects you from any listening and tracking. strcat said the opposite. We can't be both right. According to the docs and schematics, I'm right. You need a really good proof for the opposite.
Man, if this entirely thread of people calling out how ridiculous the implementation is and the killswitch not actually working in practice isn't enough to convince you, nothing ever will. I don't even feel like arguing against the absurdity of your arguments anymore. This is my last attempt at dumping it down a notch: A "microphone killswitch" is supposed to protect the user against having their convos being snooped…
LOL, it's hard to imagine a more ridiculous and self-contradicting statement than this.
1. It's just physically impossible to defend from tracking, when the phone has networking connections on. Not even on all-mighty GrapheneOS.
2. I am using a phone with the kill switches off in a meaningful manner all the time. It is a full computer running a desktop OS and can run any apps, including listening to music from a microSD card, reading saved text/pdf files, showing presentations with original LibreOffice, programming in any language with standard tools, and so on.
3. Even though the phone in the lockdown mode (with all three kill switches off) has no connections, if I'm ever in emergency and need some help, I can turn the phone functionality back on and call for the help I need. Obviously, privacy in such case would be secondary after health.
4. Unlike for GrapheneOS, there is no way to hack my kill switches for any money. I can be 100% certain that they work as intended, even if a state actor is against me. Yes, everything else might be compromised in such case but not the tracking and listening to me when I need true location and microphone privacy.
Re: Original GrapheneOS responses to WIRED fact checker
#330Earlier quoted context omitted.
The point being made is if the project and code were important to you, you wouldn’t be judging it based on the founder’s social media habits…just how it runs, and if it continues to do that year after year. Spoiler, it’s great, and will continue on.
You can't categorically exclude a founder's personality as an indicator of a project's ability to thrive. All the people basically defending this or saying it's not an issue only makes it worse. It's a perfect example of the problem: a founder is a leader, and a leader's behavior spreads and can infect the team and community.
Being okay with someone being unhinged while defending themselves over and over again hardly seems divisive.
Maybe you can frame your objection better?
Genuine question: are you familiar with the controversy of how Linus Torvalds used to frequently operate at the helm of the Linux kernel fiefdom?