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Kimi K2.6: Advancing open-source coding

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Re: Kimi K2.6: Advancing open-source coding

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://imgur.com/a/censorship-much-CBxXOgt (continues after the ad break)

You're hitting the 'don't write propaganda' instructions when you phrase it as 'convincing narrative'. Not the 'don't write bad things about America' instructions.

Did you scroll down?

It writes propaganda when 1 word is changed: US becomes China

The alignment around what constitutes "propaganda" is US-centric because it's a US model by a US company. Especially after the Russian election scandal

Chinese models are more sensitive to things their government is worried about.

Re: Kimi K2.6: Advancing open-source coding

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point drawing these Pelicans must be in the training data sets.

not if I can help it! https://github.com/scosman/pelicans_riding_bicycles

These are amazing. I smiled after I saw just how wonderfully rendered they are.

Re: Kimi K2.6: Advancing open-source coding

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Models are non-deterministic. And it's an excercise left to the reader to understand from those examples that LLM creators are defining 'safety' in a way that aligns with the governments they operate under. (because they want to do business under those governments.) With something with as multi-dimensional as an LLM, that becomes censorship of various viewpoints in ways that aren't always as obvious as a refused API…

You keep saying that word, "censorship." I do not think it means what you think it means. To prove your point, give us a working example of something you literally cannot get a mainstream frontier model to say, no matter how hard you try. I asked for this before, and there have been no takers yet.

Aligning a model in a way that causes it to refuse requests to produce propaganda for one country, but not for another country is what?

Is there some functionally equivalent word to censorship you'd like to use because of you're naive enough to think US corporations would not self-censor but Chinese corporations would?

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Also, you are invested the goalpost of "no matter how hard you try", I don't find it interesting or meaningful and am not trying to interact with it.

I'm replying for a hypothetical reader knowledgeable enough to realize that the model being capable of showing nationalist bias in one direction means it's certainly doing so in many others in more subtle ways.

That's simply the nature of aligning an LLM.

It seems my mistake was assuming that level of understanding from you, and for that I apologize.

Re: Kimi K2.6: Advancing open-source coding

#325

There is some humor in the fact that china (of all countries) is pioneering possibly the world's most important tech via open source, while we (US) are doing the exact opposite.

I think one of the motivations is undermining US companies. OpenAI and Anthropic are the two biggest players, and are American. Open weights models reduce the power those two big players have over the industry. If the Chinese companies tried to play by US rules and close-source their products then people would mostly use ChatGPT and Claude. So the Chinese companies don't make a ton of profit either way, but by releas…

I don't think so, it's just how things played out. Thanks to Meta, after llama leak and meta followed up with llama2 and llama3 that caused everyone else to follow up with open models, Stablediffusion, Mistral, Cohere, Microsoft phi, IBM granites, Nvidia Nemotrons, so the Chinese labs joined the fun too.

Re: Kimi K2.6: Advancing open-source coding

#326
post #94

I've always been surprised Kimi doesn't get more attention than it does. It's always stood out to me in terms of creativity, quality... has been my favorite model for awhile (but I'm far from an authority)

It’s good, but it’s not quite Claude level. And their API has constant capacity issues. Price/quality is absolutely bonkers though. I loaded $40 a few weeks/months ago and I haven’t even gone through half of it.

It has long been Claude level since 2.5

Re: Kimi K2.6: Advancing open-source coding

#327
post #83

Are there any coding plans for this? (aka no token limit, just api call limit). Recently my account failed to be billed for GLM on z.ai and my subscription expired because of this... the pricing for GLM went through the roof in recent months, though...

You can use $20 pro plan on Ollama or $10 one on OpenCode Go. Both has Kimi 2.6 live. https://opencode.ai/go https://ollama.com/pricing

Re: Kimi K2.6: Advancing open-source coding

#328
post #318
post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing anyone can do about state-level espionage anywhere, using any cloud-hosted service. That being said, there is a very big difference between the legal situation in the United States vs. China. Chinese internet companies are required to have CPC interaction and since the rule of law does not strictly exist in China, the state can compel surveillance cooperation regardless of what might be written down.…

Rule of law in the US - are you kidding yourself? When American citizens are being gunned down in public on cameras by US federal government agents, you are telling me that the US follows the rule of law? Before you start to offer more propaganda, just tell me where is the killer of Renée Good, has that killer been arrested or charged yet? Keep your censored version of rule of law to yourself and your kids. oh, btw,…

It is understandable to feel frustrated when justice fails (and I wholeheartedly agree that justice failed all of us many times in relation to Trump), but I think it's a mistake to confuse those specific failures with a total collapse of the rule of law. The rule of law in the United States does not guarantee a perfect or utopian society; what it does provide is a crucial framework for accountability and transparency that simply does not exist in an authoritarian nation like China.

This difference is clear when we look at how the systems handle tragedy and power. In the U.S., the killing of Renée Good by an ICE agent led to a public release of video, intense scrutiny from an independent press, public condemnation by local officials, and a family using legal tools to seek justice. In China, that event would be immediately erased from the public consciousness, and those who dared to talk about it would face arrest. When the U.S. military bombs a school, human rights groups and journalists _can_ investigate, and members of Congress _can_ publicly demand answers (even if half of them are reluctant to question anything Trump does...). In China, military operations are complete state secrets. Furthermore, while it boils my blood to see Trump evade prison due to complex legal and constitutional questions, the fact that he was indicted and convicted by a jury of ordinary citizens proves that a functional legal apparatus exists outside of his direct control, something not utterly impossible under a dictatorship like China.

Day to day, the rule of law very much exists in the US. Doesn't mean we can just sleep on it, but compared to China, I take comfort in the level of institutional reliability that still exists in America (and I'm not even American).

Re: Kimi K2.6: Advancing open-source coding

#329
post #255
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're correct, Gemini chat limits are a joke at their chapest paid tier compared to both Claude and GPT. Especially crazy when you consider Gemini 3 Pro is more than twice as cheap as Opus 4.6 on the API. It's hard to run into pure chat limits on Claude even if you only use Opus on the cheapest tier, whereas with Gemini it's easy to hit. Not sure about coding usage, Google being weird about these things I could see…

I’m not sure what A/B test you’re part of but on Claude Code Pro, I hit every single one of my quotas without exception. If you analyze/process images it’s even worse: I hit rate limits first and if I use separate sessions, I hit my quotas too. I use up so many tokens that Jensen should hire me.

I specifically stated "chat" and "not sure about coding usage" but you're saying "Claude Code Pro".

Re: Kimi K2.6: Advancing open-source coding

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A trillion parameters is wild. That's not going to quantize to anything normal folks can run. Even at 1-bit, it's going to be bigger than what a Strix Halo or DGX Spark can run. Though I guess streaming from system RAM and disk makes it feasible to run it locally at <1 token per second, or whatever. GLM 5.1, at 754B parameters, is already beyond any reasonable self-hosting hardware (1-bit quantization is 206GB). Mayb…

A huge dual socket Epyc system used to be able to get to 1TB without difficulty. 16 dimms of 64gb each. Doable for ~$3000. With considerable memory bandwidth. Our hope these days seems to be that maybe perhaps possibly High Bandwidth Flash works out. Instead of 4, 8, or maybe more for some highest end drives, having many many many dozens of channels of flash. Ideally that can be very very near to the inference. PCIe…

You can't buy 16 64gb dimms for $3000. Go shop memory prices again. But yes an old epyc can run this with no GPU at reasonable speed and if you throw a few GPUs you can get very manageable speed. I run this at home on an old system PCIe4, slow 2400mhz ddr4 ram and still getting about 13tk/sec
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