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What young workers are doing to AI-proof themselves

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Re: What young workers are doing to AI-proof themselves

#321

Post by vaylian »

rwyinuse wrote: post #249
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #145

I've been seeing a lot of ads on buses in the area (Copenhagen, Denmark) which suggest trade schools because AI won't be taking your job.

Meanwhile in Finland it's still official government policy to get at least 50% of the population to have higher education, even though academic unemployment is already at all time high. It feels like nobody in the government is even trying to prepare for the massive changes in job market.

Part of the problem is: No one currently knows where these "massive changes" will lead to. It's also not clear if more people working in the trades will be a good macroeconomic alternative either.

Re: What young workers are doing to AI-proof themselves

#322

Post by WarmWash »

Amezarak wrote: post #230
edwcross wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how it works in the US, but in some parts of Europe, blue collar trades are currently much better, for several reasons: - Price of housing and associated maintenance keeps rising, and so do small jobs like fixing plumbing, gardening, etc; - You can easily avoid paying VAT if you know how to, so that's a 20% increase, or even more, if you can benefit from social services (e.g. since you don't earn a lot, you…

You would be highly advised to learn how to do basic plumbing, electrical, and renovation tasks yourself in the US as well. The cost savings is enormous. Finding a quality contractor, in addition to being expensive, can also be very hard - there's plenty of people doing plumbing or electrical who might be licensed and everything but are grossly incompetent or never finish jobs. A lot of stuff in the US is absurdly ea…

Yeah, generally if you even have a mild disposition to learning how things work and building stuff for fun (i.e. you tore open things and played with legos as a kid). You can generally crash course most home servicing work in a afternoon and very often end up with a better result than paying someone $500 or even $5000 to do it.

Especially nowadays with AI, you can really quickly consolidate what you need to know for your specific job. Though of course, trust, but verify.

Re: What young workers are doing to AI-proof themselves

#323

Post by gambiting »

rwyinuse wrote: post #237
edwcross wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how it works in the US, but in some parts of Europe, blue collar trades are currently much better, for several reasons: - Price of housing and associated maintenance keeps rising, and so do small jobs like fixing plumbing, gardening, etc; - You can easily avoid paying VAT if you know how to, so that's a 20% increase, or even more, if you can benefit from social services (e.g. since you don't earn a lot, you…

Yea, at least over here in Finland many university degree programmers are hardly worth it, even though there are no tuition fees. A plumber or electrician can easily earn more than a researcher with PhD, with much shorter studies, better job security and more options for starting a business. I know lots of people with master's degrees who have started studying something practical after graduation, as they were unable…

>> plumber or electrician can easily earn more than a researcher with PhD, with much shorter studies, better job security and more options for starting a business.

And every single plumber and electrician I know is completely worn out(physically) by the time they hit 50. Both are these are incredibly demanding on the body, more than most people imagine. So they get to that point where they actually can't move and they need double knee replacements before they even hit retirement, and suddenly can't work anymore. Some of them try to hire people, but that's hard and not everyone is built for it - so actually (at least in my experience) you go from being very well off to practically destitute, because like someone else pointed out - people in these professions are typically cash only to avoid taxes, they spend it, they don't put it in retirement funds to avoid having to explain the source of income, and they get to a point where they can't work and don't have any income.

It looks like a great option compared to someone who just got their PhD, sure. But long term I'm not sure if that's such a great option.

Re: What young workers are doing to AI-proof themselves

#324

Post by sofixa »

Scarblac wrote: post #297
sofixa wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Taxes on unrealized capital gains would be a start A start to what? There is no way of taxing unrealised capital gains that makes sense. You're taxing theoretical value that may or may not actually exist. Rebates (e.g. you're taxed on theoretical current value, but when you realise the actual gain, you get back the difference if there is any) just moves the problem around, makes everything complicated, and penalise…

It's not hard. Tax the amount the stocks are valued at at january 1. Make exceptions for investments in illiquid things.

Ok, and on the 2nd the price crashes, company goes bankrupt, stock is worth zero. You were taxes on theoretical value that you can't sell at to pay that tax.

What then?

Re: What young workers are doing to AI-proof themselves

#325

Post by dontwannahearit »

Scarblac wrote: post #297
sofixa wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Taxes on unrealized capital gains would be a start A start to what? There is no way of taxing unrealised capital gains that makes sense. You're taxing theoretical value that may or may not actually exist. Rebates (e.g. you're taxed on theoretical current value, but when you realise the actual gain, you get back the difference if there is any) just moves the problem around, makes everything complicated, and penalise…

It's not hard. Tax the amount the stocks are valued at at january 1. Make exceptions for investments in illiquid things.

That doesn't sound like it could be gamed, at all.

Re: What young workers are doing to AI-proof themselves

#326

Post by AlexeyBelov »

jghn wrote: post #300
AlexeyBelov wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you calm down? He's not downvoted. I noticed recently your comments started really being low quality. Constant complaining and "EDIT: cannot reply" and zero introspection.

Did you consider that there was over 15 hours between their post and yours, and that perhaps at the time of their post the GP was downvoted?

Yes. This user should know that upvotes ebb and flow, and you should just wait a bit before crying about someone being "downvoted into oblivion".

Re: What young workers are doing to AI-proof themselves

#327

Post by gambiting »

wiether wrote: post #277
edwcross wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doing undeclared work. Just had it happen to a friend: needed a plumber, impossible to find anything reliable (no one in town knows of a reliable plumber; it's a rare find). All Google Maps results contained lots of paid 5-star reviews (ratings with a full, typo-less phrase, praising the company in very generic terms, and the only review for that profile), so he had to pick one of them anyway. Guy shows up, doesn't p…

> Doing undeclared work > No paperwork whatsoever > in a position to physically harm you or do damage to your home if you refuse So it's not "blue vs white collar jobs"; it's being a law abiding citizen or not. I know a lot of people who matches what you're talking about, but they all have in common to have their own interpretation of the law. There's not a single thing they do by the books. They're just "blue collar…

I am yet to find any "blue collar worker" who would do this properly and actually give me an invoice or (god forbid) would take a bank transfer to a company account or maybe even a card payment. Literally every single person I have ever interacted with for fixing my house was like "mate it's cash only or the taxman is going to get me".

Recently I even needed my rims redone on my car, went to a big autoshop in my town, the owner came out with me to look at the car and went "mate it's going to be £500, cash only, you know how it is with the taxes. Or I can give you an invoice but it's going to be £600".

I literally turned around and left. Yes, they are crooks and fraudsters - but in my experience it's completely normalized. If you can get away with it, they will do it, and since everyone seems to be getting away with it, they do exactly that.

Re: What young workers are doing to AI-proof themselves

#328

Post by msabalau »

newsoftheday wrote: post #315
anthuswilliams wrote: post #135

Summary of article: in an uncertain job market, some young people are going into blue collar trades. Others are starting startups. Others are powering through. Journalist says some words about "AI" being the cause of all this uncertainty.

How will people be able to afford to pay for blue collar labor though, when AI will potentially have decimated all white collar and many blue collar jobs; that's what I worry about. For example, if someone decides to stop being a software engineer and become an automobile mechanic, but few people can afford an automobile; they demand for their services will also greatly diminish.

Either AI causes a collapse in aggerate demand, or it doesn't.

If it doesn't, you still have your blue collar career.

If it it does, you still have your skills at things that are hard to automate, and don't seem to be any worse of than anyone else, even if collectively, we are all worse off.

At an individual level, this still seems worth pursuing. You don't get to control your macro environment.

Of course, one could still use the political and persuasive tools you have towards the aim of ensuring the benefits of AI are broadly shared. It's reasonable to fear that is hard and uncertain work, but you don't get do decide if you live in hard and uncertain times or not.

Re: What young workers are doing to AI-proof themselves

#329

Post by altruios »

ForHackernews wrote: post #307
abc123abc123 wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. The ability to work without paying taxes in this profession is of enormous value. It keeps prices lower for the consumer, and income higher for the handyman. I seen many handymen with the latest and greatest luxury cars, and the demand is endless. On the other side, it seems technologists salaries are stagnating, and the new guys on the market get lower and lower salaries, so it does indeed seem as if the best a…

If you're willing to commit fraud anyway, just run a crypto scam. The payout is a lot higher, and it will use the white collar tech skills you already have rather than forcing you to learn a trade.

I mean, or you could help build houses instead of drain electricity. One is clearly less lazy and helping humanity more.

Re: What young workers are doing to AI-proof themselves

#330

Post by alephnerd »

AlexeyBelov wrote: post #326
jghn wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you consider that there was over 15 hours between their post and yours, and that perhaps at the time of their post the GP was downvoted?

Yes. This user should know that upvotes ebb and flow, and you should just wait a bit before crying about someone being "downvoted into oblivion".

This is a conversation from 17 hours ago and was written in the context of that time. Threads are living conversations, and taking the effort to complain about discussions occurring at that specific time (over 17 hours ago) seems equally unneccesary as well.
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