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You are not your job

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Re: You are not your job

#321

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

titanomachy wrote: post #204
abcde666777 wrote: post #122

Being able to see ourselves as something beyond our job (our means of survival) is a luxury. If a person can't provide for themselves the rest goes out the window fast. The only way to ease the anxiety in people isn't with fluff about their 'human worth', but rather to help them envision other tangible and plausible ways in which they can provide for themselves. The cold reality, in my opinion, is that the things we…

Our society used to have religious beliefs that put special value on human lives / souls / whatever. Now for many people, capitalism and materialism is the only religion, and in this religion humans are reduced to their dollar value. But you should recognize that this is not a neutral choice: you have in fact chosen one of many possible value systems, and others may choose differently. Much of human behavior is not e…

So exactly was this? I am sure all of the slaveholders to the people who spit on a little black girl for dare trying to get educated in public integrated public school to the 80% of evangelical Christians who support a three times married man who admitted in his own autobiography of being a adulterer consider themselves religious.

As an older Black guy I’ve seen how both corporate America works and religious institutions. I’ve seen much less discrimination in the former than the latter.

Re: You are not your job

#322

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

codemog wrote: post #154
abcde666777 wrote: post #122

Being able to see ourselves as something beyond our job (our means of survival) is a luxury. If a person can't provide for themselves the rest goes out the window fast. The only way to ease the anxiety in people isn't with fluff about their 'human worth', but rather to help them envision other tangible and plausible ways in which they can provide for themselves. The cold reality, in my opinion, is that the things we…

Hey you’re welcome to your view. In my view that’s an insanely disgusting devaluation of human life that’s been put into peoples brains by propaganda. Capitalism and materialism sure is great huh.

And Christians founded a nation where Black people were counted as a 3/5th of a person and my still living parents grew up in the segregated south - that was upheld by a Supreme Court made up of people who were religious.

Re: You are not your job

#323

Post by thevillagechief »

watwut wrote: post #270
sph wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good god, serious life advice targeted at young men (but applicable to anybody) before the manosphere, incels and culture wars took over. Unimaginable stuff today. What a relic.

That article is crating the ground for manosphere, incels and culture wars. It tells the men they have no value and don't really matter as people. Have young men read that article, believe it and you will end up with them joining manosphere, incels and culture wars. Also, it does in fact matter whether a guy is nice.

I think the article's central point is that being nice is the bare minimum. In fact, probably less than that. If you needed life-saving surgery, it would be great to have a nice surgeon, but you're still going to pick the arrogant surgeon at the top of his field rather than a random nice guy. I will say that I in fact agree that people are innately valuable, but that's more of a philosophical/religious debate here.

Re: You are not your job

#324

Post by antisthenes »

sph wrote: post #218
ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of a very old essay on Cracked that says something very similar: https://www.cracked.com/blog/6-harsh-truths-that-will-make-y...

Good god, serious life advice targeted at young men (but applicable to anybody) before the manosphere, incels and culture wars took over. Unimaginable stuff today. What a relic.

> before the manosphere, incels and culture wars took over.

Those are convenient boogeymen that give basically the same advice, just sometimes in very crass and very rude forms.

The advice stood 50 years ago, in 2012, and still stands today. What doesn't seem to stand is that american culture seems to have abandoned holding people accountable and responsible for anything ever.

Re: You are not your job

#325

Post by DailyGeo »

This all changes when you have a kid. Before I had a kid I was my job and it hurt me when I did have a kid by not prioritizing what was important (my kid - not my JOB). I thought I was important at my place of work but realize nobody cared and I could disappear and things would be fine without me.

Re: You are not your job

#326

Post by hypeatei »

tvier wrote: post #316
abcde666777 wrote: post #122

Being able to see ourselves as something beyond our job (our means of survival) is a luxury. If a person can't provide for themselves the rest goes out the window fast. The only way to ease the anxiety in people isn't with fluff about their 'human worth', but rather to help them envision other tangible and plausible ways in which they can provide for themselves. The cold reality, in my opinion, is that the things we…

This comment defines value as what people pay for things, then comes to the conclusion that they way to value people must be based on what people will pay for them. That's not insightful, that's just circular reasoning, and it fails to explain normal human behavior. Does a child have no value to it's parents because it's "easily produced"[1] and "disposable and replaceable"? [1] I imagine OP has never given birth

> and it fails to explain normal human behavior.

...which is what exactly? My best guess is that you're implying "normal human behavior" is unconditional love and support? That's an idealistic view that doesn't hold true for everyone (even in the first world) as GP pointed out.

I think this idealistic type of mindset, which seems to be a collective agreement to blow smoke up each other's asses, has done a lot more harm than good. You get thrashed between the reality that everything is conditional and the ideal which is that you're unique and special just by existing, with the latter being delusion IMO.

Re: You are not your job

#327

Post by mr_toad »

abcde666777 wrote: post #122

Being able to see ourselves as something beyond our job (our means of survival) is a luxury. If a person can't provide for themselves the rest goes out the window fast. The only way to ease the anxiety in people isn't with fluff about their 'human worth', but rather to help them envision other tangible and plausible ways in which they can provide for themselves. The cold reality, in my opinion, is that the things we…

> They're very easily produced, by two people getting it on.

Something like 360-380 thousand births every day. We’re insignificant even just compared to the delta.

Re: You are not your job

#328

Post by jplusequalt »

pdimitar wrote: post #221
taffronaut wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd respectfully challenge that your opinion reflects reality. Nihilism [1] is just one philosophy amongst many. It's no more 'the one truth' than any of the others. Many of the other philosophies have evolved in the light of folks living for centuries through harsher reality than most of us are experiencing today. You might consider other philosophies to be delusional (as others consider nihilism to be delusional),…

Philosophy is the theory and we are discussing the practice here. Be a non-nihilist; belong to any school of thought you like. Ultimately, out there, people value you by just 5-6 things and almost never they are your beliefs or personal values. So your respectful challenge seems to be missing the point. Your beliefs are not challenged here. But you cannot change how other people value you.

>Ultimately, out there, people value you by just 5-6 things and almost never they are your beliefs or personal values.

This is such a rigid world view that is demonstrably wrong. I won't even argue with you because others have already pointed out why this cannot be true elsewhere.

What I will say is that I hope you're doing alright.

Re: You are not your job

#330

Post by philipwhiuk »

Noumenon72 wrote: post #251
thn-gap wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest contribution is still from the training set, whose original authors get 0 because of "fair use" in the copyright.

This presumes that the value was created by the authors and not the people who found a way to use the structure in the training set to create intelligence. Like crediting wi-fi router owners with creating Wi-Fi Positioning System instead of the people who realized they could wardrive around to create maps and extract a new kind of value that would never have existed without them. Or Egyptians for deciphering hierogly…

> This presumes that the value was created by the authors and not the people who found a way to use the structure in the training set to create intelligence.

This presumes it's binary.

> Or Egyptians for deciphering hieroglyphics instead of the Frenchman who realized the Rosetta Stone they were using to hold up a wall could actually be used to do much more.

Yes, I think a lot more than 1 person deserves credit for years of painstaking research.

> It's the people who found the usable structure, not the people who accidentally generated it, who created the value.

You're naively assuming the structure is accidental.

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