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“Your frustration is the product”

daringfireball.net

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Re: “Your frustration is the product”

#321

Post by robin_reala »

ratatougi wrote: post #320
Eric_WVGG wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hi, I'm a dev who was working in journalism around thirty years ago and still has some connections. The entire industry is run by actual journalists, it's one of the few industries where people who know how to do the job still rise to the top. Unlike most other industries, where the top brass are MBAs who don't actually know how to do things like build airplanes or write software or what have you. Which is honestly g…

Can you suggest some websites used to read RSS?

Feedly is the obvious choice I guess: https://feedly.com/news-reader

Re: “Your frustration is the product”

#322

Post by tonyedgecombe »

smcin wrote: post #250
simonw wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess is that the $2/user/month thing is an average across all of the users, and the fact that you use YouTube enough to even consider to pay to go ad free puts you in the much higher range of dollars-per-month users such that $14/month may even lose them money.

Yes it's a very broad global average. Advertisers pay much more for North American users, then European users.

And the ones they want to reach the most are the same ones willing to pay for a subscription to remove ads.

Re: “Your frustration is the product”

#323

Post by jes5199 »

Aurornis wrote: post #311
jes5199 wrote: post #77

I used to work at a startup that was trying to replace ads as the funding source for news (we failed, obviously) but the crazy thing we discovered is that the people who run news websites mostly don’t know where their ads are coming from, have forgotten how the ad system was installed in the first place, and cannot turn them off if they try we actually shipped a server-side ad blocker, for a parter who had so complet…

> the people who run news websites mostly don’t know where their ads are coming from, have forgotten how the ad system was installed in the first place, and cannot turn them off if they try I think this might be selection bias in your customer base. I've had some friends who worked at a local news outlet. The ads on their website were a big deal and they had a full-time position dedicated to managing internet adverti…

yes perhaps only the big players have this problem

Re: “Your frustration is the product”

#324

Post by jes5199 »

btbuildem wrote: post #146
jes5199 wrote: post #77

I used to work at a startup that was trying to replace ads as the funding source for news (we failed, obviously) but the crazy thing we discovered is that the people who run news websites mostly don’t know where their ads are coming from, have forgotten how the ad system was installed in the first place, and cannot turn them off if they try we actually shipped a server-side ad blocker, for a parter who had so complet…

If I may, what was your vision? What were you aiming to replace the ads with?

it was a single monthly subscription to a bundle, and the clever part is we would measure time spent on each site and divide up the money proportionally, so the site you spent the most time reading would get paid the most. Our founder had the idea that this would incentivize higher-quality content. We never got enough paying subscribers to really pull it off

Re: “Your frustration is the product”

#325

Post by jes5199 »

pinkmuffinere wrote: post #154
jes5199 wrote: post #77

I used to work at a startup that was trying to replace ads as the funding source for news (we failed, obviously) but the crazy thing we discovered is that the people who run news websites mostly don’t know where their ads are coming from, have forgotten how the ad system was installed in the first place, and cannot turn them off if they try we actually shipped a server-side ad blocker, for a parter who had so complet…

This is fascinating! Can you share more stories?

one of the other head-exploding experiences from that startup was when a major cell-phone company sat down with us and said, we have an idea: the ad-free cell phone. What if, every time a website would normally show an ad, we just paid them not to, at about the same rate the ads are paying. How much would that cost?

and the answer is: not much money at all. we ran the numbers and a typical user’s browsing was worth something like $20/month total across every site and every app combined

but no one can figure out the logistics, so we’re stuck with ads

Re: “Your frustration is the product”

#326

Post by kgwxd »

VertanaNinjai wrote: post #234
browningstreet wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a site with some traffic and a popular, class-leading ad plugin for the platform. At some point I just lost interest in the whole thing and cancelled my plugin subscription. I got an email from the developer, which was kind enough, asking me why I was cancelling and if there was any feedback I wanted to share. I mentioned how complicated ad inventory, ad placement, and online ordering for hands-off customer sel…

Maybe there are some details missing here, but asking for more detailed or tailored feedback makes it seem like he cares and was willing to hear you out. Sometimes people are in their own industry for so long that they forget what their industry and tools look like to outside eyes. A simple menu to him could’ve been overwhelming for you as a quick example.

If the response is an exact quote, the tone is "you must be stupid." It doesn't convey caring and wiling to hear things, and if they can't understand that before sending it, it makes perfect sense that the product sucks, and it will only get worse.

Re: “Your frustration is the product”

#327

Post by abrookewood »

bandrami wrote: post #280
abrookewood wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is just plain ridiculous. How the hell did they end up not knowing how to manage the content on their site?

Oh Lord you need to take on some non-tech companies as clients if this surprises you. I've had clients who forgot they had a website and thought that monthly hosting bill was just for something to do with the back-office Internet connection.

That is insane.

Re: “Your frustration is the product”

#328

Post by topaz0 »

MyHonestOpinon wrote: post #183
btbuildem wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I may, what was your vision? What were you aiming to replace the ads with?

I have been waiting for "Netflix for news or magazines". Pay $20 a month and get access to multiple publishers.

Others mention Apple news+ but there are actually a bunch of services that do this. Zinio is one that I've encountered, but a quick search shows that there are also Magzter, Readly, Flipboard, etc etc. I can't speak to their relative merits/range of content/user hostility. In the early 2010s I used to use one where you bought credits and paid per article (usually on the order of $1-$2 iirc, but depended on the source/length). Can't remember what it was called and I don't see it on any of these lists, so maybe it no longer exists or was bought up.

Anyway, this is something you can have if you actually want it.

Re: “Your frustration is the product”

#329

Post by Kye »

bluGill wrote: post #274
didgetmaster wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone who thinks that some kind of subscription service will replace ads, needs to take a look at history. Cable TV, satellite TV, etc., might have started ad free, but they soon adopted ads. So you ended up paying for a subscription in addition to high numbers of ads.

cable didn't start ad free. It started because some valley communities couldn't get a signal at all so the put one community antenna on high ground and ran a cable to houses to get normal broadcast tv with ads to each house. a few ad free stations came latter.

I spent a long time thinking CATV on the back mean Cable TV, not Community Antenna TV.

Re: “Your frustration is the product”

#330

Post by filleduchaos »

cortesoft wrote: post #128
not_the_fda wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You used to get the lyrics when you bought the music. Came in a nice booklet with the tape or CD, and then you would read along while listening to the music. Should be the same with streaming. If I can listen to the song, I should be able tho see the lyrics.

All the streaming apps have this feature, though?

You can't possibly expect people griping about services to actually use them, now can you
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