Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies • Hacker News Board

Re: Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies

#321

Post by nephihaha » Mon, Mar 16, 2026, 9:28 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #278

fwipsy wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of those examples you gave sound like corruption to me, with the possible exception of tickets. It seems to me that the problem is when people who are in a position of power and responsibility abuse their power for personal ends. Plumbing or tutoring or cheese are privately held goods and surely the possessors of those goods can dispose of them how they want? Or perhaps in all of these examples the plumber/groce…

Yea, I guess I don't get it either. I know someone who can eat at a local restaurant for free whenever he wants because he knows the owner. In return, he helps the owner maintain his car and does little odd handyman jobs around the owner's house for him. Is this blat? Is it corruption? Or is it just friends doing each other favors?

We call that restaurant thing "mate's rates" here. There is a symbiotic relationship there, a trace of barter and also keeps work off the tax books.

Re: Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies

#322

Post by nephihaha » Mon, Mar 16, 2026, 9:33 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #220

yason wrote: post #130

It's well known that in authoritarian regimes (which autocracies generally are) corruption is, rather than a problem, a necessary element of society to keep things going. Anyone with the slightest amount of official power, like a government officer, has the ability to prevent things going forward on his part. In this kind of society, most people are poor and it would be considered stupid to not demand a small (or lar…

> Western corruption mostly concerns about the powerful and rich making friendly mutual agreements to bend the governing bodies and law to enable themselves become more powerful and richer. There's an awful lot of low level corruption in the form of NGOs who receive government funding with no accountability for what the funds are spent on.

Not just state NGOs. Remember the UN has plenty of NGOS such as the WHO, UNHCR, UNESCO and so on. No accountability in them either.

Re: Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies

#323

Post by hatthew » Mon, Mar 16, 2026, 9:39 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #278

fwipsy wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of those examples you gave sound like corruption to me, with the possible exception of tickets. It seems to me that the problem is when people who are in a position of power and responsibility abuse their power for personal ends. Plumbing or tutoring or cheese are privately held goods and surely the possessors of those goods can dispose of them how they want? Or perhaps in all of these examples the plumber/groce…

Yea, I guess I don't get it either. I know someone who can eat at a local restaurant for free whenever he wants because he knows the owner. In return, he helps the owner maintain his car and does little odd handyman jobs around the owner's house for him. Is this blat? Is it corruption? Or is it just friends doing each other favors?

From the sound of it (I have never heard of blat before this post), the important distinction is that the owner is on board with it. If he could eat for free because he knew a server who would give him the employee discount, it would be blat. If he worked as a mechanic and took parts from his employer to repair his friend's car, it would be blat.

Re: Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies

#324

Post by bigstrat2003 » Mon, Mar 16, 2026, 10:02 PM UTC

jimbokun wrote: post #294

Aunche wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Western corruption mostly concerns about the powerful and rich making friendly mutual agreements to bend the governing bodies and law to enable themselves become more powerful and richer. Believe it or not, this is how lawmaking is supposed to work in a democracy. No one in a position of power is going to be completely selfless. The Civil Rights Acts were only able to pass because NAACP promised to endorse the Repu…

> Voters have since lost interest in actual lawmaking, and have in fact become hostile to it. This is a very succinct description of arguably the biggest problem of our democracy right now. A huge part of Trump’s success is convincing voters that everyone in politics is corrupt, to inoculate himself from criticism for the very overt acts of corruption he engages in. Many people seem to support him under the argument…

> A huge part of Trump’s success is convincing voters that everyone in politics is corrupt...

Trump didn't have to convince anyone of that. Voters already believed that, and have for some time. Trump merely had to speak to that widespread, preexisting belief.

Re: Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies

#325

Post by tines » Mon, Mar 16, 2026, 10:17 PM UTC

gmd63 wrote: post #227

ACS_Solver wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very well said. I live in Sweden, one of the world's highest-trust societies, but I have experience from a more corrupt environment and my whole family lived most of their lives in a corrupt autocracy. This means that in a corrupt society, it's extremely difficult as an individual not to participate. The corruption isn't something that happens at some level, it's a core part of the economy. If you try to do things by…

Access to corruption is never widely understood and accessible to every person, otherwise it would be written into law and stated plainly for everyone to see. Corruption is a form of economic eugenics that breeds fraudsters and cheaters who can buy into the in-group via know-how, money or aesthetics while slowing the growth of a law abiding populace that competes honestly on merit but doesn't fit the unwritten rules…

> Access to corruption is never widely understood and accessible to every person, otherwise it would be written into law and stated plainly for everyone to see.

This is an uninformed non-sequitur. In China or Mexico for example, it's well known that to get certain things done you have to bribe local officials. The central government is against corruption by policy, but nevertheless corruption is endemic. It's only "inaccessible" to some because some people are poor and can't afford the bribes.

Re: Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies

#326

Post by tlogan » Mon, Mar 16, 2026, 10:21 PM UTC

dzink wrote: post #19

You have to understand how gears shift from there. Trust is essential for business transactions and specifically for long term investments. You can’t make massive leaps in technology or medicine or many other areas without trust (a lot of money on a leap means if you don’t trust the other side or the government to keep conditions stable, you won’t see a return). Now if you are in a high trust society, you may have a…

Excellent insight. Trust is key for capitalism. And for functioning democracy. When trust is lost, whether in the system or in your fellow citizens, everything begins to suffer.

I think of society as an extended family. If you do not trust your spouse, many things in your home simply will not work.

Re: Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies

#327

Post by keybored » Mon, Mar 16, 2026, 10:42 PM UTC

jimbokun wrote: post #302

captainkrtek wrote: post #183

Was talking about this with some colleagues who are from Ukraine, Russia, and other countries. In the US, it seems corruption is only allowed at the top. If you tried to bribe your way out of a traffic ticket as a regular person, you'd get in big trouble, then meanwhile the president pardons wealthy fraudsters [1]. Meanwhile, in countries like Russia, everyone can get in on the action. A colleague of mine told me if…

The US is still mostly a Rule of Law country, in the sense that courts enforce the laws as written most of the time. But which laws are passed by Congress and signed by the President are mostly determined by financial donations more so than public opinion.

With enough money you can define what corruption means.

Re: Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies

#328

Post by thatcat » Mon, Mar 16, 2026, 10:48 PM UTC

btilly wrote: post #273

fwipsy wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of those examples you gave sound like corruption to me, with the possible exception of tickets. It seems to me that the problem is when people who are in a position of power and responsibility abuse their power for personal ends. Plumbing or tutoring or cheese are privately held goods and surely the possessors of those goods can dispose of them how they want? Or perhaps in all of these examples the plumber/groce…

They are all corruption, or corruption adjacent. The plumber is working for a company. He's supposed to be working on an official job. But he's doing the work slowly because he's actually working on your plumbing problem. You are working for the grocery store. You are stealing cheese from the store system that is supposed to allocate it, and making it available it to the plumber as payment for your plumber being corr…

Would you say the scarcity is what starts the corruption?

Like you can't get a plumber so you have to use your personal network or there aren't enough tickets so you have to obtain one through your personal network, etc?

Re: Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies

#329

Post by wewtyflakes » Mon, Mar 16, 2026, 10:54 PM UTC

drysine wrote: post #254

mentalgear wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop the relativism. In a democracy it's mostly all of us that have a say, in a dictatorship it's one guy and his fascist rank's whim.

>it's mostly all of us that have a say Do you?

I mean, literally so in a democracy, no? You could argue 'we' (whoever that is) do not live in a democracy, but to say that a plurality of voices do not matter in a democracy seems wrong at face-value.

Re: Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies

#330

Post by hunterpayne » Mon, Mar 16, 2026, 10:56 PM UTC

awesome_dude wrote: post #279

ACS_Solver wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very well said. I live in Sweden, one of the world's highest-trust societies, but I have experience from a more corrupt environment and my whole family lived most of their lives in a corrupt autocracy. This means that in a corrupt society, it's extremely difficult as an individual not to participate. The corruption isn't something that happens at some level, it's a core part of the economy. If you try to do things by…

One thing that I want to add - Westerners have experience of this sort of corruption, every day. Not at a governmental level, and not powered by cash, but it is seen when working for companies. Managers are highly corruptible - it's got next to nothing to do with the output of a given worker, instead it's about their ability to "kiss up" (something framed as "soft skills")

If the managers are not taking bribes or favors for better treatment that isn't corruption...its just bad management. Those aren't he same thing even though you might have the same emotional reaction to them.