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British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

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Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#321

Post by zarzavat »

shagie wrote: post #70
dessimus wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, it sounds like you're actually arguing that the numbers are just a construct and that we should all just use UTC and set appropriate work hours to the times that most correlate to the solar day in our region rather than adjust the clock approximately 1 hour per 15 degrees around the equator and have an International Date Line. I think this would make way more sense, when they say the Olympic Opening Ceremony star…

Yes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandford_Fleming ( https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/sandf... ) > He promoted worldwide standard time zones, a prime meridian, and use of the 24-hour clock as key elements to communicating the accurate time, all of which influenced the creation of Coordinated Universal Time. The one bit where this would be problematic would be "what day is it?" When does today b…

China shows why this is impossible.

When people propose switching to UTC what they are actually proposing is that everyone nominally switches to UTC but still uses local time informally in everyday life, which is a worse system than time zones. At least with time zones there is a way to know what time it is in any given place. With informal time you lose that.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#322

Post by __turbobrew__ »

water-data-dude wrote: post #92

Everyone else is throwing in there 2¢, so here's my pet proposal. Here's the undeniable fact: everyone (ok, almost everyone, but it's a rounding error) hates the switchover in spring, when you have to get up an hour earlier. Conversely, everyone (or a rough approximation) likes the switchover in the fall, when we get to sleep in an extra hour. So why don't we just get rid of the switchover in the spring and get rid o…

Work/school days should just be shorter in the winter. We can easily leave work/school an hour earlier in the winter and nothing bad would happen.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#324

Post by indecisive_user »

throw0101c wrote: post #269
Aerroon wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess northern Europe must be an unpopulated wasteland where everybody's health just instantly declines. I find these explanations to these studies so bizarre. We know that there are large populations living significantly further north, who don't get sunlight in the morning in winter, no matter whether there's DST or not. We also know that they get almost perpetual light during summer. If these explanations were tr…

The European Biological Rhythms Society (EBRS), European Sleep Research Society (ESRS), and Society for Research on Biological Rhythms (SRBR) put out a joint statement that recommends all-year Standard Time in the EU: * https://esrs.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/To_the_EU_Commiss... I would hazard to guess some of those folks have looked at data for northern Europe and took it into account when forming their conclusi…

I think you're missing the parent's point.

Cities in northern Europe, like Stockholm and Oslo, already have sunrise times as late or later than Vancouver will have under permanent DST.

If the effects of shifting the clock an hour are as extreme as purported, then we should already see those negative health effects in populations that live their entire lives under those conditions, but we don't.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#325

Post by est »

zarzavat wrote: post #321
shagie wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandford_Fleming ( https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/sandf... ) > He promoted worldwide standard time zones, a prime meridian, and use of the 24-hour clock as key elements to communicating the accurate time, all of which influenced the creation of Coordinated Universal Time. The one bit where this would be problematic would be "what day is it?" When does today b…

China shows why this is impossible. When people propose switching to UTC what they are actually proposing is that everyone nominally switches to UTC but still uses local time informally in everyday life, which is a worse system than time zones. At least with time zones there is a way to know what time it is in any given place. With informal time you lose that.

how so?

Eastern parts of China gets up at 05:00 AM and westtern part gets up at 10:00 AM.

People get used to it.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#326

Post by rtpg »

Aerroon wrote: post #258
throw0101c wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm in BC. The astro-nerd in me would have preferred to see permanent Standard Time instead of a permanent +1 offset. So would the folks who study circadian rhythms: > Over much of the highly-populated areas of Canada, the sun would not rise until about 9 am in winter under DST, and the daylight will linger an hour later in summer evenings than under Standard Time. As a Northern country, Canada includes higher lati…

I guess northern Europe must be an unpopulated wasteland where everybody's health just instantly declines. I find these explanations to these studies so bizarre. We know that there are large populations living significantly further north, who don't get sunlight in the morning in winter, no matter whether there's DST or not. We also know that they get almost perpetual light during summer. If these explanations were tr…

I mean it's possible for there to be bad health effects from something without it outright killing everyone. This is why things like hygiene are tough! You can have terrible hygiene and still be alive for a long time.

Perhaps if Sweden adopted a different policy it would have an even longer life expectancy!

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#327

Post by tharkun__ »

messe wrote: post #281
gregdeon wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unless you roll out of bed and instantly onto your commute, you're getting natural sunlight through all your windows for hours every morning. Sadly, not if you're a student living in a basement in Vancouver!

> Vancouver Southerners ... (Chiming in from Denmark)

Icelanders want a word with you :P

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#328

Post by bryanlarsen »

est wrote: post #325
zarzavat wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China shows why this is impossible. When people propose switching to UTC what they are actually proposing is that everyone nominally switches to UTC but still uses local time informally in everyday life, which is a worse system than time zones. At least with time zones there is a way to know what time it is in any given place. With informal time you lose that.

how so? Eastern parts of China gets up at 05:00 AM and westtern part gets up at 10:00 AM. People get used to it.

Local time tells you things like "when is it a good time to call this person". Unless the person is calling is in China.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#329

Post by pajko »

jorvi wrote: post #143
emptybits wrote: post #15

I'm in BC. The astro-nerd in me would have preferred to see permanent Standard Time instead of a permanent +1 offset. Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset and the solar cue of "high noon" is also a real thing. I'm sure I've read that sleep health experts have historically supported a change to permanent Standard Time, not DST. I respect there are economic arguments for pe…

> Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset I'd bet people would happily trade away the inkling of light they get during their winter commute before locking themselves into their office for some extra daylight when they leave that office. Daylight is most enjoyable if you can actually make use of it.

Also don't forget losing daylight in summer evenings.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#330

Post by duskdozer »

allknowingfrog wrote: post #157
jorvi wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset I'd bet people would happily trade away the inkling of light they get during their winter commute before locking themselves into their office for some extra daylight when they leave that office. Daylight is most enjoyable if you can actually make use of it.

Well, I'm not one of those people. I like waking up with the sun and driving to work in the daylight. The idea that DST solves anything absolutely blows my mind. If you want the ability to start your work day earlier and end it earlier, that seems like a worker protection bill that needs to be passed. DST is the kludgiest kludge that ever kludged.

It's the obvious real solution that sidesteps all the personal-preference-driven claims on what option is "objectively" better/healthier/whatever, but corporate society isn't ready for it I guess
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