Live data from Hacker News

AI Made Writing Code Easier. It Made Being an Engineer Harder

ivanturkovic.com

321–330 of 330 posts

Re: AI Made Writing Code Easier. It Made Being an Engineer Harder

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ideas are obviously a prerequisite, but they aren't "worth anything" because there is so many of them and without them being executed well (or sometimes, executed at all), they don't really bring any value. So really, they are comparatively cheap. I, for one, have hundreds of ideas, but always lacked the time to execute on 5% of them.

Good ideas (and the ability to recognize them) are very valuable in my opinion. It also depends on what you mean by an idea: - A todo app better than the existing ones - A todo app with these 3 features - A todo app with these 3 features, here's how the UI would look I have tens of ideas, but maybe 1 - 3 that I believe have a meaningful chance to become successful and generate income ($20k annually or more) with grea…

I have hundreds of ideas which I think can generate revenue of the sort you describe, but they need significant work each (execution). Note that $20k annually is already full annual salary in half of the world too.

Re: AI Made Writing Code Easier. It Made Being an Engineer Harder

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good ideas (and the ability to recognize them) are very valuable in my opinion. It also depends on what you mean by an idea: - A todo app better than the existing ones - A todo app with these 3 features - A todo app with these 3 features, here's how the UI would look I have tens of ideas, but maybe 1 - 3 that I believe have a meaningful chance to become successful and generate income ($20k annually or more) with grea…

I have hundreds of ideas which I think can generate revenue of the sort you describe, but they need significant work each (execution). Note that $20k annually is already full annual salary in half of the world too.

Can you share some out of curiosity? Yes, I know that $20k is a full salary in many countries.

Re: AI Made Writing Code Easier. It Made Being an Engineer Harder

#323
post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think there won't be students or academics anymore? Arguably, most non-corporate-supported (when that became a thing) FOSS was created by students and academics. So what is really changing?

> So what is really changing? Higher education is less affordable and accessible to more families, and the value proposition is eroding. CS academics survive by joint ventures with corporations, not by their University salaries. Escalating cost of living and reduction in institutional support systems push more people toward allocating their scarce spare time toward fundamental needs rather than contributing to the so…

I see your point, thanks — it definitely rings true!

I agree the scale will change, but most of the core FOSS we depend on today has started off when software development was not as lucrative as it was in the past 2+ decades — which means it can still happen. It does change the dynamics as you say.

Re: AI Made Writing Code Easier. It Made Being an Engineer Harder

#324
post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminder that AI-writing detection tools are largely junk.

Pangram is reliable. Quoting from their website > Pangram achieves essentially zero false positive rates and false negative rates on medium-length to long passages.

Well, with such a trustworthy source, I have to believe it.

Re: AI Made Writing Code Easier. It Made Being an Engineer Harder

#325
post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about "best" or "traditional," though your bias is clearly set. "Write me a feature that does _x_" isn't satisfying for me, and, like the author said in the post, it sucks that people that think otherwise are telling me that my way is the "old way", as you put it. (It's doubly-ironic for me, as I actually like writing documentation!)

> "Write me a feature that does _x_" isn't satisfying for me, and, like the author said in the post, it sucks that people that think otherwise are telling me that my way is the "old way", as you put it. Ya, no. It’s not that easy. Programming with prompts is much more intellectually challenging, maybe it will be like that in 5-10 years? Right now we are in a productivity increase that is more similar to interactive t…

I'm assuming you're bucketing me in with the "traditionalists," which is fine.

I didn't say "intellectually challenging." I said "satisfying." Neither matters in the context of enterprise software development, which only cares about "fast" and "safe", but alas.

Regardless, I understand the tech fairly well and have used it, and, no, I haven't found it intellectually challenging _in a way that is satisfying._

In my experience, coding with Claude is basically asking someone else to author what I want and asking it for fixes/changes/etc, kind of like how /u/simonw published here when converting memchr to Python from Rust: https://archive.ph/AqyUq (original Gist here: https://gist.github.com/simonw/1bf98596a83ff29b15a2f4790d71c...).

For me (and I'm not alone in feeling this way), that's like asking someone to solve a puzzle for me and guiding them through the steps. Or, more relevantly, asking ChatGPT or Apple Intelligence to type some email or blog post for me when I'm stuck on a word or way to phrase something.

I suppose some find this fun. I don't. The "you should like this" narrative that is constantly being pushed onto me by people who, by and large, have always thought of software development as a means to an end and a cost-optimization exercise is tiring.

This is the point that I keep making and will continue to defend, "traditionalist" or not.

Re: AI Made Writing Code Easier. It Made Being an Engineer Harder

#326
post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Write me a feature that does _x_" isn't satisfying for me, and, like the author said in the post, it sucks that people that think otherwise are telling me that my way is the "old way", as you put it. Ya, no. It’s not that easy. Programming with prompts is much more intellectually challenging, maybe it will be like that in 5-10 years? Right now we are in a productivity increase that is more similar to interactive t…

I'm assuming you're bucketing me in with the "traditionalists," which is fine. I didn't say "intellectually challenging." I said "satisfying." Neither matters in the context of enterprise software development, which only cares about "fast" and "safe", but alas. Regardless, I understand the tech fairly well and have used it, and, no, I haven't found it intellectually challenging _in a way that is satisfying._ In my ex…

Hmm, I find it just hacking at a different level. It is like when we moved from BASIC to C to Java. I find it definitely satisfying, figuring out how to tell someone to do something is a different skill than actually doing it, though, but it feels right to me.

Re: AI Made Writing Code Easier. It Made Being an Engineer Harder

#327
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically I had a very smart and otherwise reasonable math professor who, shortly after Kasparov lost to Deep Blue, said in class that chess was no longer interesting.

I mean I would too be concerned if such a major event _wouldn't_ make people question their assumptions/beliefs/ideas/visions. If you have no reaction at all, you probably weren't paying attention. Eventually though, people _should_ recover and return after having processed the changes. So maybe the professor was still recovering at the time?

It's possible. At that time people were talking about Go as the next frontier (that didn't last long). IMO, the game is the same, and for 99.9999% of folks who ever play it, whether a computer can beat the best human is irrelevant in how fun it is to play.

Re: AI Made Writing Code Easier. It Made Being an Engineer Harder

#328
post #318
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree on making it easier. I'm very capable of writing code in multiple languages but it's boring and monotonous. It's getting in the way of me building the system I have in mind. I prefer the engineering (design) to writing. If I can describe my system design to something (a junior developer or an AI) and see it come to life quickly, that's great; it lets me spend more time on designing the system, or perhaps d…

To be frank, this just sounds like self-serving BS, likely from someone who's only ever done front-end stuff and hasn't ever cracked open Godbolt (or doesn't even know what that is). Describing system constraints at a high-level, whether to an AI prompt or subordinate devs, and letting them figure out the details is much more akin to system architecture than actual engineering.

For what it's worth, I'm a principal engineer. I've been building software professionally for 18 years. I've done very little front end work; I appreciate it but I'm not good at it. My work has mostly been with databases, cluster management systems, machine learning models, parsers and generators, network file systems, and a bunch of other back and work, tying that all together into applications used in custom integrated circuit design.

I've never heard of Godbolt before but I have written assembly for x86, AVR and PIC. I've optimized PTX based on analyzing the SASS assembly instructions for building GPU-accelerated linear system solvers.

System architecture is part of engineering. It's literally part of the design documents we had to produce in my engineering capstone project. Engineering is about choosing among a bunch of alternatives to meet the intended goal. That requires understanding the problem that's to be solved, details of all the alternatives and their trade-offs, and how those alternatives would be implemented into a solution. You apply the same engineering principals at the system architecture level, module level, function level, and even each line of code.

I work with some very capable developers. I can discuss with them and come up with a plan at a system or module level and trust them to make their own design decisions. We can discuss them ahead of time if I think it might be too much for them. I can review their work and iterate with them if I have concerns. These are all things I can do with modern AI tools.

If that's self-serving, so be it, but me and fellow engineers of all different levels of experience are seeing benefits from using AI at times where it makes sense for us. This hasn't cost us our jobs - we are hiring madly - but it has helped us to learn things and build things faster.

It's another tool in the toolbox. Use it when it suits you.

Re: AI Made Writing Code Easier. It Made Being an Engineer Harder

#329
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LLMs write this way because people write this way. Maybe not everyone, but enough for it to train the models to do it. Much of my writing reads like an LLM wrote it, but that doesn't make me an LLM.

Yes and no. LLMs take all the writing on the Internet (good and bad) and average it out. It's similar to the way generative AI images always have an identifiable, artificial "look". They've averaged out the personality and thereby erased the individuality that went into the efforts the original artists used to create them.

Yup, I'll agree with that. It certainly does end up with a generic tone that has become ubiquitous. It's like the Continental English accent that actors and news hosts are taught to use - they all sound the same because they have all been taught to sound the same.

Re: AI Made Writing Code Easier. It Made Being an Engineer Harder

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have hundreds of ideas which I think can generate revenue of the sort you describe, but they need significant work each (execution). Note that $20k annually is already full annual salary in half of the world too.

Can you share some out of curiosity? Yes, I know that $20k is a full salary in many countries.

A very simple one: interview scheduling tool integrated with multiple calendars.

Eg. when interviewing, sometimes I have a pool of interviewers, and I want a pair to be offered to a candidate (they only see time slots, obviously) with certain internal conditions (one expert from this pool, another from this pool; eg. tech stack or timezone), while equally loading all of them.

Sounds simple but I could never find a tool that does it, and I believe companies might be interested just like they get tools like calendly just for limited purposes.

iCal format is simple on the face of it, but companies have restrictions on the feeds, and accounting for recurring events and working hours is not as trivial.

Post reply on HN