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Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is killed in Israeli strike, ending 36-year rule

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Re: Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is killed in Israeli strike, ending 36-year rule

#321

Post by wqaatwt »

flyinglizard wrote: post #100
thisislife2 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. This is just western media trying to project some morality to what was an internationally illegal act ... (and perhaps some in the media hoping against hope this publicity would please the dear, glorious leaders of Israel and the US to end the war).

International law being thrown around a lot. Seems like everyone is an int’l law expert, even though it’s quite an exotic speciality. So please go ahead and tell me, where does International Law prohibit a state that’s at war with another to assassinate its head of state?

US is not at war with Iran. Only the Congress has the right to declare war.

Re: Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is killed in Israeli strike, ending 36-year rule

#322

Post by vasco »

baxtr wrote: post #162
vasco wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Iran the outcome is yet to be seen, but we have nearby Arab countries where we don't have to guess what happens. Great deflection.

You want your story to be true so badly you ignore counter examples? You should consider conformation bias.

What story? Iraq is ruled by ISIS and Syria is ruled by a dude who's goal was to institute Sharia or ISIS v2. Those were both countries in the region where US intervention toppled a dictator and now is how it is.

Re: Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is killed in Israeli strike, ending 36-year rule

#323

Post by wqaatwt »

bjourne wrote: post #303
csmpltn wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of people died under Saddam, too. Do you think the average Iraqi would choose to go back and live under Saddam?

Estimates put the number of people killed due to the American invasion between half a million and a million. Saddam's brutality paled in comparison to the carnage the US invasion caused.

This also includes indirect deaths?

But if you add up the Iraq-Iran war and all his domestic atrocities it’s not that far (and these are only direct casualties).

Re: Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is killed in Israeli strike, ending 36-year rule

#325

Post by wqaatwt »

icar wrote: post #315

In 1953, Iran was a secular and democratic country. They had elected a prime minister who decided to nationalize the oil industry. The US didn't like this and overthrew him. They imposed a brutal monarchical dictatorship. Popular discontent led to the 1979 Islamic Revolution. The ayatollahs, to a large extent, existed because of US interference. The same is true for all the instability in the Middle East, entirely ma…

> In 1953, Iran was a secular and democratic

That glosses over a huge amount of details. Calling it democratic is a huge stretch.

> They had elected a prime minister

The election of 1952 were rigged (seemingly by both sides) and not free at all. The vote was even stopped early and almost half the seats left empty.

Mosaddegh was also already in power (being appointed by the Shah) before these “democratic” elections and his reforms were already underway.

Re: Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is killed in Israeli strike, ending 36-year rule

#326

Post by paganel »

Almondsetat wrote: post #21
paganel wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What moment would that be? Begging for the Americans to bomb their former country?

At some point you have to decide: if my country is held back by a brutal dictatorial regime where civilians can't hope to topple it, is there anything else to do other than get external help?

At no point in life I would wish for my fellow citizens to get killed by a foreign power. I’m already in my mid-40s, I’ve spent a day or two out in the streets, protesting (granted, not against governments that the West labels as dictatorial), but at no point has that option crossed my mind. More on point, I would regard the people thinking like that as traitors, because that’s what they are by definition, wishing for your fellow citizens to get killed by a foreign Power so that your political views can prevail is the very definition of treason to one’s people and nation.

Re: Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is killed in Israeli strike, ending 36-year rule

#327

Post by wqaatwt »

SethMurphy wrote: post #306
Dig1t wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously has nothing to do with oil companies or oil, this is a war on behalf of Israel. Netanyahu visited Trump 6 times in the past year. Prominent Zionists and Israelis inside the US have been agitating for the US to do this for years, especially since Trump took office last year.

Wars are almost always about commerce, history has shown that. Ideology is used to back the motive publicly, but the reason for involvement is almost always trade or commerce. This case could be different, but it is not obvious to me that this case is any different. A simple example is WW1 where the US was forced to back the UK because of their large debt to US banks, despite them still being a colonist power at the…

You are implying that Trump is rational and/or the interests of his administration align with those of the country?

Re: Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is killed in Israeli strike, ending 36-year rule

#328

Post by AlecSchueler »

baxtr wrote: post #311
1a527dd5 wrote: post #86

I wonder how old the rest of the commentators are. I watched the Shock and Awe campaign. I watched Saddam fall. I remember thinking this is great. Years later, I understand it was a complete folly. Removing Saddam in itself was good but what it did the wider region was not good.

I am old enough. Iraq is not perfect today but so much better than it was. Go talk to Iraqis and see for yourself. It costs us some time, money and lives to get to this point. But Saddam (a tyrant who killed his own kind in masses with gas and started wars with neighbors) staying in power would have been way worse for the wider region.

I think the point being made is that there's wider fallout than just what's directly affected. If you go to Syria and ask Syrians how they feel about the affects on the wider region they might not so readily agree. Or even ask Iraqis in the border region who lived through ISIS rule.

Re: Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is killed in Israeli strike, ending 36-year rule

#329

Post by wqaatwt »

dotancohen wrote: post #132
ReptileMan wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite the opposite - if they know they are risking their lives they would be more reasonable.

It's the stated reason why the United States has an impeachment process. So that they have a process for removing undesirable heads of state without resorting to assassination.

The US has a constitution as well? It seems pretty worthless these days since nobody is willing to enforce it..

Re: Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is killed in Israeli strike, ending 36-year rule

#330

Post by wqaatwt »

bjourne wrote: post #194
TulliusCicero wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's definitely odd if he was just sitting in his compound. That's a very, well, known place for him. Surely Iran has plenty of secure underground bunkers for leadership to retreat to?

Fleeing is seen as dishonorable in many parts of the Arab world. Remember the Israeli lies about how Yahya Sinwar dressed in women's clothes and were trying to cross the border to Egypt? In reality he was out in the field with his men killing Israeli soldiers. He died a brave death and Khamenei will now have died one too.

> Fleeing is seen as dishonorable

Tell that to the soldiers in the famously almost universally ineffective militaries of almost all the countries in the Arab world.

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