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Danish government agency to ditch Microsoft software (2025)

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Re: Danish government agency to ditch Microsoft software (2025)

#321

Post by partiallypro »

rambojohnson wrote: post #171

Europe’s reading the room and building exits. They’re also cutting dependence on Visa/Mastercard because tying your payment rails to a declining, unstable empire is a bad long-term bet. Wero, the digital euro, local infrastructure, all of it points to the same thing: financial sovereignty matters when America looks more like a geopolitical liability. my read is that 2026 to 2027 is basically Europe saying, "we should…

I don't know how to break this to you, but Europe itself has been the burning building for 20 years. I don't see that changing any time soon. The anti-US stuff is largely flailing, the US is better positioned than Europe for the next 20 years also. They struggle with investment, have almost no large companies left of any merit in tech, have political problems that are similar to the US's, and regulate themselves to death. It would take a political revolution in Europe to fix that, and frankly they don't have it in them.

Re: Danish government agency to ditch Microsoft software (2025)

#322

Post by llm_nerd »

tick_tock_tick wrote: post #314
llm_nerd wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That must be unacceptable to any sovereign government The US recently doubled down on using US corporations as vehicles of coercion, sanctioning ICC judges for judging against Israel . https://www.state.gov/icc-sanctions This is beyond insane, and every American company causing grief for the staff of a criminal court in which every single civilized nation but the US and Israel (I guess I didn't have to add that but)…

Why shouldn't the USA sanction a clear overstep of authority? Neither the USA or Israel are part of the ICC.

Overstep?

ICC members make judgements that are abided by ICC member states. They have every authority to make those judgments, and it does not matter what the busted idiocracy US of A, acting as a pathetic supplicant state for their boss Israel, thinks about it.

Maybe Trump can complain to his unbelievably pathetic Board of Peace. Christ.

The war criminal Netanyahu can stick to the rogue shitholes he is welcomed at. The US -- which btw is currently engaged in BLATANTLY criminal activities in a number of venues -- can get fucked. The US has *ZERO* authority to tell members of the ICC who or what they can declare a warcrime, or who members of the ICC will hold to account if they enter their country.

What a bizarre take.

And yes, the US can sanction whoever they want, but such actions are far from free.. When every American firm is sent packing, enjoy the results. And yes, American payment processors are discovering in super-rapid quicktime how this rogue cabal of war criminal, paedos and criminal grifters are destroying their future.

Re: Danish government agency to ditch Microsoft software (2025)

#323

Post by l72 »

cguess wrote: post #297
lpcvoid wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's Nextcloud/OCIS/Owncloud for Sharepoint (god I fucking hate Sharepoint) and Onedrive, there's Libreoffice/Collabora (and Onlyoffice, but that's russian...), there's Thunderbird for Email. Windows is absolutely replaceable also, of course, maybe even easier than the Office365 subscription mentioned above. The lock in only exists in brains of (old) people that can't adapt. MS products can all be replaced, and sh…

There's not even a reasonable FOSS calendar for Linux that integrates with email. Thunderbird has it, but it doesn't work with Google's Advanced Protection for instance.

Evolution has worked with every corporate environment I’ve been in since 2003. Mail, calendar, contacts, tasks has always worked great, including companies that have used outlook, Google, and others.

I personally don’t love thunderbird, but what is it missing?

Gnome through their online accounts supports most major corporate providers which has calendars showing up in evolution, the dedicated calendar app, and in the status bar of gnome shell.

Re: Danish government agency to ditch Microsoft software (2025)

#324

Post by vanschelven »

bradley13 wrote: post #80

That's great, but it's always just one agency, or one very local bit of government. If we (Europeans) really mean it - and we should - the top level of government just needs to make the declaration: as of X, all Microsoft licenses will be terminated. No exceptions. Adapt or die. According to the CLOUD act, the US government can demand access to data from US companies, regardless of where that data is stored. That mus…

Every journey starts with the first step... And those steps are finally being taken now. Don't see why this kind of naysaying would be the top comment here

Re: Danish government agency to ditch Microsoft software (2025)

#325

Post by prepend »

rambojohnson wrote: post #171

Europe’s reading the room and building exits. They’re also cutting dependence on Visa/Mastercard because tying your payment rails to a declining, unstable empire is a bad long-term bet. Wero, the digital euro, local infrastructure, all of it points to the same thing: financial sovereignty matters when America looks more like a geopolitical liability. my read is that 2026 to 2027 is basically Europe saying, "we should…

So it’s like Europe is ungoogling itself from the US?

Re: Danish government agency to ditch Microsoft software (2025)

#326

Post by kyboren »

llm_nerd wrote: post #322
tick_tock_tick wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why shouldn't the USA sanction a clear overstep of authority? Neither the USA or Israel are part of the ICC.

Overstep? ICC members make judgements that are abided by ICC member states. They have every authority to make those judgments, and it does not matter what the busted idiocracy US of A, acting as a pathetic supplicant state for their boss Israel, thinks about it. Maybe Trump can complain to his unbelievably pathetic Board of Peace. Christ. The war criminal Netanyahu can stick to the rogue shitholes he is welcomed at.…

ICC claims[0] that since:

  - The Palestinian Authority claims to represent 'Palestine'
  - UNGA Resolution 67/19 "Reaffirms the right of the Palestinian people to self-
    determination and to independence in their State of Palestine on the Palestinian
    territory occupied since 1967"
  - They consider Gaza "Palestinian territory occupied since 1967" (despite the fact
    that Gaza has certainly not been occupied by Israel for decades and a completely
    separate entity from the PA exercises sovereignty there)
Therefore 'Palestine' is a State Party properly represented by the PA and covered by its accession to the Rome Statute, and thus the ICC totally have jurisdiction over Gaza and non-party state Israel's actions there.

Beyond the absurd sophistry and incoherent reasoning, Israel is--once again--not a signatory to the ICC. Asserting jurisdiction over a sovereign entity without their consent is a violation of state immunity[1], a legal concept predating the ICC by over 600 years.

I'd say that qualifies as an overstep.

[0]: https://www.icc-cpi.int/sites/default/files/itemsDocuments/p... [1]: https://opil.ouplaw.com/display/10.1093/law:epil/97801992316...

Re: Danish government agency to ditch Microsoft software (2025)

#327

Post by AtlasBarfed »

bradley13 wrote: post #80

That's great, but it's always just one agency, or one very local bit of government. If we (Europeans) really mean it - and we should - the top level of government just needs to make the declaration: as of X, all Microsoft licenses will be terminated. No exceptions. Adapt or die. According to the CLOUD act, the US government can demand access to data from US companies, regardless of where that data is stored. That mus…

Well governments need to wake up and realize that if they aren't the US and even if they are the US, open source provides most of the basic building blocks of what you're going to build independent non-corporate controlled and non-external-state controlled software

So fund it!

Governments burn billions of dollars on defense which really is just an economic waste outside of the deterrent effect it does from getting invaded.

Investing in open source to enable you to be software independent and protected, not only is it providing some measure of electronic and economic defense, it improves software for you and your allies.

You get return on your investment.

Re: Danish government agency to ditch Microsoft software (2025)

#328

Post by kube-system »

sho wrote: post #300
Johnny555 wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their initial need for Office was some soft of forecasting model that they needed to update for a large investor. That was a big spreadsheet that ran on Office for OSX if I remember correctly. After that, I don't know what specifically they needed to use, they had purchased some software that required Windows and Office.

Call me cynical, but having been around the block a few times when I hear "need" and "require" my brain translates that to "want" and "it would be convenient if". I've done my share of forecasting for investors and am quite confident that there is nothing in any startup forecast that could conceivably "require" Windows. I mean, absolute worst case, just use SQL. The CFO just preferred Windows, that's it, I'd bet mone…

IME what it means is that they have a bunch of processes built that specifically depend on it. It doesn't make it impossible to switch but depending on the scope could be financially or practically prohibitive to migrate. Maybe someone has 10 years of custom excel macros put together that are run every quarter, that would need to be migrated. To migrate you might not have the internal capacity and might need to hire external help to do it.

Re: Danish government agency to ditch Microsoft software (2025)

#329

Post by prerok »

gizzlon wrote: post #247
flexie wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am Danish, working with IT in the private sector, but with regular contact to the public sector. I can assure you that there is plenty of other agencies, ministries, municipalities, private companies etc. in both Denmark and other European countries looking into switching to non-American software. "Data sovereignty" is now an important parameter when chosing supplier. Everybody asks about it it. Everybody plans aro…

> "Data sovereignty" is now an important parameter when chosing supplier. I hope you're right! I'm a backend dev and engineer, and I would love to specialize in helping companies off US cloud. Haven't found a lot of interest here in Norway so far..

In my experience, companies are perfectly happy with US companies, as long as the data doesn't leave Europe. This means we have to prove we only store data in European datacenters.

I guess that's fine for now, but it would be better if we could get European alternatives to AWS or GCP.

Re: Danish government agency to ditch Microsoft software (2025)

#330

Post by toomuchtodo »

deanc wrote: post #76
Mashimo wrote: post #15

I work in software development for Danish hospitals, and some regions already used OpenOffice, now libre office, for .. well over 15 years. At least in parts. We integrate with an API into libreoffice, and it more or less did not change in well over a decade. But sometimes libreoffice crashes and you can't figure out why. There are just no logs. It feels like a black box at times. But I don't think they will be switc…

I think if we're to move to away from these US products to open source ones, then governments should also provide resources or funding to develop them using the licensing fees they save. Is the Danish government contributing back to libreoffice?

Indeed, take what you're paying US Big Tech and direct it to domestic EU enterprises, corporate or non profit.
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