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Loops is a federated, open-source TikTok

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Re: Loops is a federated, open-source TikTok

#321

Post by pjc50 »

sharperguy wrote: post #318
pjc50 wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

.. ah, yes, "completely unmoderated free speech system that supports images" does mean "may contain CSAM". Heck, even Instagram had a horrific "mirror world" incident where the moderation bit got flipped on a number of images which ordinary users were exposed to. I wouldn't run any kind of publishing system for anons myself. It's potentially valuable for an actual social group though.

I've been hearing talk for years about a "web of trust" system, that could filter spam simply by having users vouch for eachother and filtering out anyone not vouched for. However, I haven't seen a function system based on this model yet. Personally I'd love to add in something like the old slashdot comment model, where people would mark content as "helpful", "funny", "insightful", "controversial" etc, and based on h…

I think the last one of those I saw was Advogato?

Some of the social media systems, including Bluesky, started as invite-only, but that was only ever really for rate-limiting and in particular there were no negative consequences for inviting someone who was subsequently banned.

Re: Loops is a federated, open-source TikTok

#322

Post by wongarsu »

sharperguy wrote: post #318
pjc50 wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

.. ah, yes, "completely unmoderated free speech system that supports images" does mean "may contain CSAM". Heck, even Instagram had a horrific "mirror world" incident where the moderation bit got flipped on a number of images which ordinary users were exposed to. I wouldn't run any kind of publishing system for anons myself. It's potentially valuable for an actual social group though.

I've been hearing talk for years about a "web of trust" system, that could filter spam simply by having users vouch for eachother and filtering out anyone not vouched for. However, I haven't seen a function system based on this model yet. Personally I'd love to add in something like the old slashdot comment model, where people would mark content as "helpful", "funny", "insightful", "controversial" etc, and based on h…

There is the simpler version that is approximately "you can only get in if someone vouches for you. If a person you vouch for misbehaves you get punished as well". That's effectively a "tree of trust" with skin in the game. And it's incredibly successful, used in lots of communities, crime rings, job recommendations, etc.

Any attempt to generalize this by allowing multiple weak vouches instead of a single strong one, or allowing people to join before getting vouched for, or removing the stakes in vouching for someone, etc. always end up failing for fairly predictable reasons. No matter how much cool cryptography you add

Re: Loops is a federated, open-source TikTok

#323

Post by HugoTea »

nanobuilds wrote: post #153

The UX should be more "mass user" friendly if the goal is to attract mainstream users. Sign in with Apple/etc.. selecting a server is technical language and not end-user language etc.

This is the same philosophy as the creator, the sign-up flow does not ask you to select a server it defaults you to loops.video Maybe the app is different? I haven't tried it yet

Re: Loops is a federated, open-source TikTok

#324

Post by HugoTea »

soared wrote: post #187
nanobuilds wrote: post #153

The UX should be more "mass user" friendly if the goal is to attract mainstream users. Sign in with Apple/etc.. selecting a server is technical language and not end-user language etc.

Also why not have the homepage be a feed, let me scroll for a bit before forcing me to sign up

You can, but you need to be on an instance, go to https://loops.video for that experience. joinloops.org is more of an onboarding site it seems

Re: Loops is a federated, open-source TikTok

#325

Post by HugoTea »

Gigachad wrote: post #169
deminature wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Selecting a server is one of the reasons the fediverse appears to have not seriously challenged incumbents. As soon as a non-technical user sees this, they bounce.

There's also the problem where selecting the server is quite a consequential choice which users who are brand new have no way to make a proper choice on. The owner of the server you choose has access to all of your data and the ability to delete your account or shut down the server at any time.

This is the same for every internet service, and the primary experience when signing up to big centralised services like Facebook, LinkedIn or Twitter. If they think your account is suspicious in any way, instantly gone with no way to appeal, I've seen a number of friends experience this recently and they're not even outliers using a VPN or 'unusual' email or anything. At least with federated services, you have the opportunity to keep backups of your profile and sign-up with another instance whenever you want.

Re: Loops is a federated, open-source TikTok

#326

Post by wongarsu »

echelon wrote: post #195
brutal_chaos_ wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, you don't need to slay giants to be a viable product.

"nicotine free cigarettes" are a product too. We have limited time on earth, so many tend to evaluate things on how big of an impact they make or how large of a demand they satisfy. It's okay if not everything is big, but it's also okay for people to use scale as a criteria for sizing things up.

I guess there is an argument that every food product should add opium to their ingredients to make sure it's bought by as many people as possible and eaten as frequently as possible

But I don't think that's healthy for either the product or society

Re: Loops is a federated, open-source TikTok

#327

Post by edgyquant »

wiseowise wrote: post #259
echelon wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't buy that argument at all. My parents lived in apartments. Parents for all of human civilization and history have lived in worse. The fastest growing populations have less money and safety nets than middle class folks. It's the dopamine and time suck. Men and women aren't bored and looking to fill the void and boredom with children. (Kids also can't work as free labor on the farm anymore, either, but th…

So you think trudging through life with kids is somehow more virtuous than trying to enjoy limited time you have?

This is not an honest question

Re: Loops is a federated, open-source TikTok

#328

Post by berenddeperend »

wongarsu wrote: post #322
sharperguy wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been hearing talk for years about a "web of trust" system, that could filter spam simply by having users vouch for eachother and filtering out anyone not vouched for. However, I haven't seen a function system based on this model yet. Personally I'd love to add in something like the old slashdot comment model, where people would mark content as "helpful", "funny", "insightful", "controversial" etc, and based on h…

There is the simpler version that is approximately "you can only get in if someone vouches for you. If a person you vouch for misbehaves you get punished as well". That's effectively a "tree of trust" with skin in the game. And it's incredibly successful, used in lots of communities, crime rings, job recommendations, etc. Any attempt to generalize this by allowing multiple weak vouches instead of a single strong one,…

Wouldn't that be easy to bypass by just adding one or two proxy accounts? Say person A invites me (a bad actor). I could invite a second throwaway account, with which I invite a third throwaway account. I do bad things on my third account. Could you reasonably punish person A for this? You'd first have to prove that the throwaway accounts all belong to me.

Re: Loops is a federated, open-source TikTok

#329

Post by wizzwizz4 »

AuthAuth wrote: post #148
wizzwizz4 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no interest in guns, and only a minor interest in sports and cars; but if you set up an instance devoted to these, and got your friends to use it (just to talk to each other), I reckon it would only be a few months before you'd seeded a community. (There is plenty of comedy on the Fediverse, so I think that's a bad example.) The design of the Fediverse is receptive to niche communities. If other communities ar…

I disagree because you dont just want "twitter for MMA" you want the whole network. So you want to be a good citizen and have instances federate with you. But most wont because of the nature of the content. So users would prefer platforms where they can follow all content from a single account.

You can still have those instances federated with you. Consider the various language communities on the Fediverse: there's little overlap between them, except where speakers are bilingual, but their instances do federate. You can do the same thing with interests.

There is no advantage to centralised systems in this regard: they have all the same problems.

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