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AI makes you boring

marginalia.nu

321–330 of 397 posts

Re: AI makes you boring

#321

> The cool part about pre-AI show HN is you got to talk to someone who had thought about a problem for way longer than you had Honestly, I agree, but the rash of "check out my vibe coded solution for perceived $problem I have no expertise in whatever and built in an afternoon" and the flurry of domain experts responding like "wtf, no one needs this" is kind of schadenfreude, but I feel guilty a little for enjoying it…

>and the flurry of domain experts responding like "wtf, no one needs this"

People have been saying this about Show HNs for time eternal. There have been an insane number of poorly thought out, poorly considered, often Get-Rich-Quick type of creations, long before AI. Things where the submitter clearly doesn't understand the industry they're targeting, doesn't provide any sort of solution, etc. Really strange if people actually think this is a new phenomenon.

Indeed, a recent video that I rather loved touches on this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Km2bn0HvUwg

Its subject is "Everything was Already AI", the point being that everyone is quantizing and simplifying and reflecting everyone else and the consensus, in such a fashion that people acting like AI ruined everything...yeah, it was already ruined. We already have furry artists drawing furry art just like countless other furry artists, declaring it an outrage that someone used AI to draw furry art, and so on. As the video covers, the whole idea of genres is basically people just cloning each other.

Be right back, going to put on a cowboy hat and denim and sing in a drawl about pickups and exes.

Re: AI makes you boring

#322

Based on a lot of real world experience, I'm convinced LLM-generated documentation is worse than nothing. It's a complete waste of everybody's time. The number of people who I see having E-mail conversations where person A uses an LLM to turn two sentences into ten paragraphs, and person B uses an LLM to summarize the ten paragraphs into two sentences, is becoming genuinely alarming to me.

> The number of people who I see having E-mail conversations where person A uses an LLM to turn two sentences into ten paragraphs, and person B uses an LLM to summarize the ten paragraphs into two sentences, is becoming genuinely alarming to me. I remember in the early days of LLMs this was the joke meme. But, now seeing it happen in real life is more than just alarming. It's ridiculous. It's like the opposite of com…

We do this because using AI makes you immediately lazy in a way that is difficult to put in words but that anyone who tried can relate to.

We do this because we were impressed that one time the stars aligned and the output was decent. So we write just one more prompt bro in the hope it'll will be better than the latest 10, which ended up a waste of time.

We do this because $boss has been successfully spitting out 7 PowerPoints a day with it, which nobody reads but makes them feel productive, therefore this must be the future, therefore AI use shall be mandated until team productivity improves.

Re: AI makes you boring

#323
The content of the article seems OK, but I'm still going to generally disagree with it. Maybe my take is just confirming the thesis, but I don't find the larger things I do with AI to be borifying (yes I just invented that word).

I've been ramping my use since the start of this month, and have already made serious progress on a number of projects, many of which have been on ice for years, and have also built out a stable of supporting tools. And I've found it generally exhilarating; making good progress where there was none before is pretty heady.

One of the more memorable experiences I have was a problem that I had to deal with for years, had thought hard about, and then in the end Claude resolved it cleanly with about 1/3 a screen of code (would share the link, but there's no "share" in the mobile app):

=============== I often use [snoop](https://github.com/alexmojaki/snoop) because I like the features and output formatting, but it doesn't support async. I have found [ASnooper](https://github.com/LL-Ling/ASnooper), but it only supports async. I'd like to add ASnooper's async feature to snoop.

I'm thinking of creating a project that imports both, and patches the relevant parts of snoop with the async functionality from ASnooper. I have some notes from looking into the snoop code: - A `ConfiguredTracer` object is exposed in `builtins` (configuration.py, line 142). - Whenever the `ConfiguredTracer` object is called with an async function, it raises (tracer.py, line 166). - The trace event is passed to a formatter, and then a writer (tracer.py, line 280-281). ... and in the ASnooper code: - An `ASnooper` object is exposed (__init__.py). - Whenever the `ASnooper` object is called on an async function, it creates formatter and writer objects (core.py, line 69-75). The approach I'm considering is to wrap `ConfiguredTracer.__call__` with a method that delegates async function tracing to `ASnooper`, and replace the `OutputFormatter` and `OutputWriter` classes with versions that delegate to `snoop`'s implementation. I've prepared a repo for the solution: """ . ./README.md ./pyproject.toml ./tests ./tests/__init__.py ./src ./src/async_patched_snoop ./src/async_patched_snoop/__init__.py """

I've also extracted excerpts from both projects, as unified diff contexts (attached). Any issues, questions or suggestions? Or a better approach that doesn't involve forking the targeted projects? ===============

I prompted Claude with this along with a file containing the diffs (constructed with the help of another prompted tool), Claude informed me of the issues in my approach and suggested a couple alternate solutions, I selected the one 1 preferred, Claude asked for some more context and then did the implementation, and now I have async support in snoop. Probably took me over an hour to construct that initial prompt, and under 5 minutes of conversion to completed solution. I really don't think that that's boring.

Re: AI makes you boring

#324
post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s lots of times where I just don’t care how it’s implemented. I got Claude to make a test suite the other day for a couple RFCs so I could check for spec compliance. It made a test runner and about 300 tests. And an html frontend to view the test results in a big table. Claude and I wrote 8500 lines of code in a day. I don’t care how the test runner works, so long as it works. I really just care about the test…

What is it about the tests that make you not care about how it’s implemented versus other code? Just the fact that it isn’t interesting to you? I happen to like spec-testing code and find it an interesting design space. It is vital to review it thoroughly for correctness. But I also think that whether I find something interesting or not doesn’t have much bearing on whether code quality is important. Code quality can…

> What is it about the tests that make you not care about how it’s implemented versus other code?

Huh this is a thought provoking question.

I think there's a few reasons. In a test suite:

- I don't care about performance.

- I don't care (as much) about reliability. My users aren't affected by crashes and other failures in my tests.

- I don't care (as much) about correctness. Erroneously failing tests will get human attention. Tests that erroneously pass are a bigger problem, but my test suite is not the last line of defence against bugs reaching users.

- If I had infinite time, I'd love every line of code to be a mathematically beautiful work of art. But I don't. Writing this test suite by hand would have taken me about 3 weeks. Instead, I did it in 1 day with claude. This let me spend 14 productive days working on other things. I would rather have a good-enough test suite and 14 days of productive work than an excellent test suite and nothing else. I could spend those 14 days fixing all the bugs it found. Or writing more tests. Or getting claude to write more tests. Or going outside with my friends. These are all better uses of my time.

If I was writing the core of a new game engine, the scheduler of an operating system or the data storage engine for a new database, then I would think hard about every line of code. But not all code is like that. We must adapt ourselves to the project at hand. Some lines of code matter a lot more than others. Our workflow should take that into account.

Re: AI makes you boring

#325
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's exactly how I meant it. I might _rarely_ peruse some code if I'm really curious about it, but by and large I just trust the developers of the software I use and don't really care how it works. I care about what it does.

As a developer of software I often have to care because it matters and so I read the code. Source code is often written for other humans first and foremost.

I've had to dig into node modules to try to debug code from a closed source library that we depended on.

I'd much rather wade through AI slop than minified code, which may have previously been AI slop.

Re: AI makes you boring

#326
post #245
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Users typically don't read code, developers (of the software) do. If it's not worth reading something where the writer didn't take the time to write it, by extension that means nobody read the code. Which means nobody understands it, beyond the external behaviour they've tested. I'd have some issues with using such software, at least where reliability matters. Blackbox testing only gets you so far. But I guess as opp…

Key part is *where reliability matters*, there are not that many cases where it matters. We tell stories of Therac 25 but 90% of software out there doesn’t kill people. Annoys people and wastes time yes, but reliability doesn’t matter as much. E-mail, internet and networking, operations on floating point numbers are only kind of somewhat reliable. No one is saying they will not use email because it might not be deliv…

10% is still quite a lot!

Reliability matters in lots of areas that aren't war. Ignoring obvious ones like medicine/healthcare and driving, I want my banking app to be reliable. If they charge me $100 instead of $1 because their LLM didn't realize their currency was stored in floating point dollars and not cents, then I may not die but I'd be pretty upset!

Re: AI makes you boring

#328

Meh. Being 'anti AI' is just hot right now and lots of people are jumping on the bandwagon. I'm sure some of them will actually hold out. Just like those people still buying Vinyl because Spotify is 'not art' or whatever. Have fun all, meanwhile I built 2 apps this weekend purely for myself. Would've taken me weeks a few years ago.

I feel similarly but if people want to hate on AI, they're free to do so I guess

Re: AI makes you boring

#329
post #89

I've seen people say something along the lines of "I am not interested in reading something that you could not be bothered to actually write" and I think that pretty much sums it up. Writing and programming are both a form of working at a problem through text and when it goes well other practitioners of the form can appreciate its shape and direction. With AI you can get a lot of 'function' on the page (so to speak)…

> Writing and programming are both a form of working at a problem through text… Whoa whoa whoa hold your horses, code has a pretty important property that ordinary prose doesn’t have: it can make real things happen even if no one reads it (it’s executable). I don’t want to read something that someone didn’t take the time to write. But I’ll gladly use a tool someone had an AI write, as long as it works (which these th…

AI is excellent for helping to write things like tech specs, procedures and manuals.

Re: AI makes you boring

#330
For many applications boring is good. If you are writing a novel, you don't want boring, but if you're working piece of code, I don't think you want "exciting".
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