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America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

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Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#321

Post by malshe »

eru wrote: post #312
malshe wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent years in Singapore and loved it there. Never had to face road rage (which so many of us experience daily several times driving in Texas! NextDoor is full of these stories) or aggressive behavior by anyone in authority including police and immigration officers. I know many people find Singapore boring after a while but it didn't bother me much. On the flip side, the cost of living is high as a foreigner and tr…

Boring is good for business.

I agree. Predictability is underrated.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#322

Post by paulryanrogers »

forshaper wrote: post #102
mothballed wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CPF makes a moral justification by arguing it is a "savings and pension plan" under the auspices of a moral justification of helping citizens set aside their own money. The very first thing you are greeted with on their website is that it's savings and an overview represents it as "setting aside" your own funds. The government makes a moral justification of a savings plan but then when we dig down to it it's all ethe…

When are moral justifications not facades?

When they benefit others more than you and your in-group.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#323

Post by throwaway5465 »

DaedalusII wrote: post #26
InkCanon wrote: post #12

Singapore's economic policies are complicated and often misdirecting. I'll break down the misconceptions. The primary purpose of CPF is not a pension scheme. It is structured as a massive forced bond purchase scheme by citizens. Financially what happens is the 37% of citizen income buys a long term bond (till retirement age, on average decades) at rock bottom interest rates (it's pegged to the overnight rate or a min…

> It is structured as a massive forced bond purchase scheme by citizens the UK effectively does the same thing with DB schemes forced to buy Gilts

DB schemes forced not to take long payment holidays when markets go up.

Offering a DB scheme however is an employer's choice, a choice most choose not to make today.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#324

Post by pezezin »

mikestorrent wrote: post #281
Grimburger wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is being entirely disingenuous and is completely different to what goes on in Dubai. I have lived there and can rattle off plenty of criticisms about the country but complaining about migrant workers who clamour to work in SG is not one of them. The vast majority of Singapore migrant workforce are Malaysian citizens who live over the border in JB, you can rent a 2 bed apartment there for $300 a month and eat out…

> while commuting each day to a developed country Must be a fully automated border or something? That kind of commute would be unthinkable between e.g. Canada and the USA for most folks

I don't know about the USA, but such an arrangement is extremely common in Europe thanks to the Schengen area.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#325

Post by paulryanrogers »

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #252
krapp wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't have the free market. We've never had the free market. Every economy has always been under some degree of regulation and centralized control simply by virtue of existing within the context of a society and government that enforces laws and levies taxes.

The government has never controlled the means of production for the most part except for “natural monopolies” like utilities, cable etc where everyone should be served and it doesn’t make sense to try to have two companies building out infrastructure

For some narrow definitions of 'control', and ignoring regulatory capture

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#326

Post by wat10000 »

lelanthran wrote: post #203
bluGill wrote: post #22

You know who they didn't interview: those who regret saving so much. Many of those people are dead and so the regret is something we can only apply on assumption that they would. I've known a few people who unexpectedly died before they hit retirement age. I've know a few people who retired and died suddenly. The vast majority of people in a "first world" country have an expected lifespan of about 80 - but there is a…

> you can't take it with you (at least in most religions) so spend it. I don't understand this PoV at all. I can't take it with me, sure, but I'm happy anyway if I leave it behind to my kids. This PoV that you need to spend, spend, spend to get the most value for your money is very primitive - my kids will do better if I die before touching my nest egg, and if I don't at least I'll have a longer runway to live withou…

The point is just not to impoverish yourself in order to save more than you need. You don't have to spend, spend, spend, but don't eat rice and beans every night just so you can have more money than you'd ever need in retirement.

This is one of those things where generalized advice often makes little sense because circumstances are so different. If you make $500,000/year, you can save half of your take-home pay and still live very well, and have a ton of money when you retire. If you make $50,000/year, you might struggle to save at all if you're supporting a family, and there's going to be a lot of tension between saving for retirement and occasionally having some nice things before retirement. Living in poverty to save for retirement and then dying before you can enjoy any of it would be a sad outcome here. But if you're more towards the upper end of this spectrum, those cautionary tales sound a lot like "spend spend spend."

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#327

Post by mr_toad »

mikestorrent wrote: post #281
Grimburger wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is being entirely disingenuous and is completely different to what goes on in Dubai. I have lived there and can rattle off plenty of criticisms about the country but complaining about migrant workers who clamour to work in SG is not one of them. The vast majority of Singapore migrant workforce are Malaysian citizens who live over the border in JB, you can rent a 2 bed apartment there for $300 a month and eat out…

> while commuting each day to a developed country Must be a fully automated border or something? That kind of commute would be unthinkable between e.g. Canada and the USA for most folks

I had an unplanned short stop in Singapore in December after missing a connecting flight. I just filled in an arrival form online (no Visa), went through the electronic gates, an officer glanced at me and let me through without a word. Whole process took about ten minutes, and it would have been quicker if I’d filed the paperwork beforehand.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#328

Post by jhbadger »

mikestorrent wrote: post #281
Grimburger wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is being entirely disingenuous and is completely different to what goes on in Dubai. I have lived there and can rattle off plenty of criticisms about the country but complaining about migrant workers who clamour to work in SG is not one of them. The vast majority of Singapore migrant workforce are Malaysian citizens who live over the border in JB, you can rent a 2 bed apartment there for $300 a month and eat out…

> while commuting each day to a developed country Must be a fully automated border or something? That kind of commute would be unthinkable between e.g. Canada and the USA for most folks

There's people who live in Tijuana, Mexico and work in San Diego, California and that's way worse than Canada/USA in terms of time and hassle. Not something I'd want to do, but then I wouldn't want to live in Connecticut and work in NYC, which many people do either.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#329

Post by delta_p_delta_x »

mikestorrent wrote: post #281
Grimburger wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is being entirely disingenuous and is completely different to what goes on in Dubai. I have lived there and can rattle off plenty of criticisms about the country but complaining about migrant workers who clamour to work in SG is not one of them. The vast majority of Singapore migrant workforce are Malaysian citizens who live over the border in JB, you can rent a 2 bed apartment there for $300 a month and eat out…

> while commuting each day to a developed country Must be a fully automated border or something? That kind of commute would be unthinkable between e.g. Canada and the USA for most folks

> Must be a fully automated border or something?

Oddly enough, not until very very recently (~2024). Traffic jams of several hours are still quite normal for vehicular traffic, and it is the busiest crossing on the entire planet, with up to half a million crossings a day.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#330

Post by frankchn »

everforward wrote: post #199
alistairSH wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not all that different than US Social Security. SS has a much lower required contribution/tax rate, but the overall scheme seems similar (lower than market returns, etc) and naming (despite SS actually being called a tax, many residents think of it as a required personal retirement savings account).

SS is different mostly in that you’re not really loaning money to the government. The money coming in today mostly goes right back out as payments. There’s also an upper limit on SS taxable income. I forget what it is, but basically the entirety of the top quintile isn’t paying SS on their entire income. I want to say it’s like 90k, but it’s been a while since I looked.

There is an upper limit on CPF contributions as well, currently set at S$8,000/month for ordinary wages and S$102,000/year total (ordinary wages + sales/performance bonuses, etc...).

In comparison, the US social security income limits this year is US$184,500/year.

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