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Sizing chaos

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Re: Sizing chaos

#321

Post by janalsncm »

sevenseacat wrote: post #308
coldtea wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like, why doesn't the market solve for this? If the median woman can't buy clothing that fits in many brands, surely that's a huge marketing opportunity for any of the thousands of other clothing brands? Because - in reality it's not much of a problem. Billions of women manage to buy and wear clothes just fine. Some might fit slightly better or worse, but unless you have very special body shape (and even extreme th…

In reality its a massive fucking problem. This is why so many women end up wearing men's clothing, which doesn't fit their shape at all, just because they're the only things they can find that they can actually fit into! What special snowflake part of the world do you live in that any woman can walk into any clothes shop and find clothes that fit? Because I call bullshit on that.

Based on the article, several brands have clothes that range from the low 20s to the mid 50s which covers essentially all waist sizes. If a woman has a 55 inch waist or a 20 inch waist she cannot buy pants at American Eagle but I wouldn’t characterize it as a massive problem. In fact the article identifies exactly where such a woman could find pants.

Re: Sizing chaos

#322

Post by janalsncm »

fishtoaster wrote: post #14

This is a great use of data to make a compelling case that sizing sucks for women's clothing! I do wish it attempted to answer the question at the end, though: "Sizes are all made up anyway — why can’t we make them better?" Like, why doesn't the market solve for this? If the median woman can't buy clothing that fits in many brands, surely that's a huge marketing opportunity for any of the thousands of other clothing…

The pockets issue is even more blatant since a lot of women would like to put their phones in their front pockets.

Re: Sizing chaos

#323

Post by testdelacc1 »

galkk wrote: post #284
zamadatix wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the "THe VILLaIN aRC oF VANiTY SiZINg" section, vanity sizing is framed as marketing strategy which is successful because of the psychology around that - linking out to https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S10577... for more detail. It certainly wouldn't be the first time the most profitable marketing strategy is unrelated to aligning with what's optimal for the consumer.

This is the weirdest section, and is just unnecessary virtue signaling. Women don’t buy their real size because it makes them feel bad -> market pressures companies to address that by doing vanity sizing -> brands bad I cannot comprehend that jump in the logic.

Not quite “brands bad”.

It’s more that buying clothes across brands becomes confusing for women. That’s a worse outcome for women.

The villain isn’t the brands, it’s the vanity sizing.

Re: Sizing chaos

#324

Post by sevenseacat »

iteria wrote: post #229
WarmWash wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its like the pockets complaints. Women desperately want pants with pockets, but pockets throw off the aesthetic, so they don't sell well.

Is that actually true though? Because I remember distinctly as a teen somewhere in the 00s where pockets stopped being an option. I could not and still cannot buy them in regular stores. I have to go to speciality stores or order online to get pockets. A lot of women have become resigned, but I rarely know a woman who isn't very excited about pockets for every day wear. I also don't know a single woman who enjoyed th…

I've only managed to find one brand of jeans ever that actually fit me, and then they changed their sizing system and new ones no longer fit.

I've just stopped wearing jeans.

Re: Sizing chaos

#325

Post by testdelacc1 »

AmbroseBierce wrote: post #87
zamadatix wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the "THe VILLaIN aRC oF VANiTY SiZINg" section, vanity sizing is framed as marketing strategy which is successful because of the psychology around that - linking out to https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S10577... for more detail. It certainly wouldn't be the first time the most profitable marketing strategy is unrelated to aligning with what's optimal for the consumer.

Of course education could help about this and other psychologically manipulative tactics by corps but such kind of education is heavily frowned upon for being seeing as anti-capitalist and (more propagandistic) as un-american, so there is zero of such kind of education.

Education doesn’t help here, what are you talking about?!

Educated people can read as many books as they want about manipulation and still be susceptible to it. The manipulation works on a much deeper emotional level. We can’t change who we are, no matter how much education we get.

Being told by a brand “you’re fat” hurts no matter how many papers you’ve read or published and “you’re still thin and beautiful and desirable!” feels amazing.

Re: Sizing chaos

#326

Post by sevenseacat »

bfung wrote: post #236

Hot take (?): The random sizing today is great: * If you want a better fit, go physically to a store instead of shopping online and try them on. * the vanity part is also fine, no need to cause outrage at raising the number and making people depressed cause they think they're even more "fat". It doesn't need to be "optimized" * Only serves online retail to "standardize", but guess what, 15th standard also sucks... .…

> * If you want a better fit, go physically to a store instead of shopping online and try them on.

Cool. If you don't have an hourglass shape, none of them will fit you properly. They'll either be way out in the hips, or the thighs, or the waist, or the length (for pants), or the waist, the length, the shoulders, the bust, or the arms (for shirts), and don't get me started on shoes. What now?

Re: Sizing chaos

#327

Post by sevenseacat »

astura wrote: post #45

>By age 15, most girls have gone through growth spurts and puberty, and they’ve reached their adult height. >Many have started to outgrow the junior’s size section. Ummmmm.... What? I wore junior’s sizes well into my 30s. Am I really that much of an outlier?

As someone who grew out of junior sizes by the age of 10, yes (so am I)

Re: Sizing chaos

#328

Post by seyz »

the real insight here isn't that sizing is broken. Everyone knows that. It's that fixing it would require brands to admit their current customers don't match the label they've been selling them. "You're not a size 6, but size 10" is bad for business

Re: Sizing chaos

#330

Post by sevenseacat »

janalsncm wrote: post #321
sevenseacat wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In reality its a massive fucking problem. This is why so many women end up wearing men's clothing, which doesn't fit their shape at all, just because they're the only things they can find that they can actually fit into! What special snowflake part of the world do you live in that any woman can walk into any clothes shop and find clothes that fit? Because I call bullshit on that.

Based on the article, several brands have clothes that range from the low 20s to the mid 50s which covers essentially all waist sizes. If a woman has a 55 inch waist or a 20 inch waist she cannot buy pants at American Eagle but I wouldn’t characterize it as a massive problem. In fact the article identifies exactly where such a woman could find pants.

You realize clothes are more than just waist sizes? Pants, for example, need to account for waist, hips, thighs, and length. All of these are very very different ratios on women of different body shapes.

And what you've said actually confirms that what I said is accurate - women can't walk into _any_ clothes shop and find clothes that fit, which is what the poster I replied to said.

Plus, some of the data there is not consistent globally. I don't know a lot of the brands there, but Uniqlo is one we do have and they do not do 3XL in women's clothing here in Australia.

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