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Wisconsin communities signed secrecy deals for billion-dollar data centers

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Re: Wisconsin communities signed secrecy deals for billion-dollar data centers

#321

Post by nativeit »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #253
horsawlarway wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how I feel about this. I think "reputation" is absolutely critical to functional societies, and this feels a lot like putting a mask on and hiding critical information. If Facebook got rejected because people hate Facebook, even when the economics are good... that's valuable to society as a feedback mechanism to force Facebook to be, well - not so hated. Letting them put a legal mask on and continue busi…

> I think "reputation" is absolutely critical to functional societies, See the popular vote results of Nov 2024 US presidential election. Reputations were on full display.

Doesn’t that further defeat the argument for secrecy here?

Re: Wisconsin communities signed secrecy deals for billion-dollar data centers

#322

Post by yccs27 »

sneak wrote: post #194
Supermancho wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. The company surveyed a number of surrounding locales, looking for a favorable situation. Harwood had the existing Fargo infrastructure and the mayor of Harwood was happy to take a payout. I think the company predation was transparent.

How is that predation if the people in that city democratically elected the mayor who made that choice? Isn’t that representative democracy decisionmaking working as intended?

It‘s preying on the city‘s desperation to get a cash payout, to get space and utilities worth much more. Facebook abuses its market power to pit city governments against each other, while the cities don‘t have many alternatives.

Re: Wisconsin communities signed secrecy deals for billion-dollar data centers

#323

Post by dylan604 »

buttercraft wrote: post #298
b00ty4breakfast wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's worrying that they would consider something without knowing who they were dealing with, economics be damned.

I'm not sure. Cities are supposed to approve or deny applications based on whether they comply with zoning, codes, parking, water availability etc. They can't deny based on who or what the business is alone. A city near me is dealing with a lawsuit for exactly that. It probably varies from state to state, I don't know.

> They can't deny based on who or what the business is alone

They absolutely can and do this. Ask to put an adult entertainment store next to a school/church. Ask to put a liquor store next to a school/church. The city will say no.

Re: Wisconsin communities signed secrecy deals for billion-dollar data centers

#324

Post by rvba »

upboundspiral wrote: post #269
dguest wrote: post #39

I'd like to hear the argument for why this is needed. I can imagine a number of reasons, but this is all I found in the article: > If I’m a company considering making strategic investments... I don’t want my competition to know where I’m going, what I’m doing, what pace I’m doing it at... You want to make sure everything is buttoned up and bow tied before that type of information is put into the public realm. I'm hav…

What I've come to realize is that the rust belt states have been in huge trouble for decades. They were living in "benevolent feudalism" when GM, Ford, etc all had factories there. The problem is that these companies effectively owned the cities in which they operated. And then they left. Since the Reagan years we decided to export everything that built our economy so the landlords in power could have even more profi…

They dont have any negotiating power -> it is a race to the bottom

Re: Wisconsin communities signed secrecy deals for billion-dollar data centers

#325

Post by buellerbueller »

bell-cot wrote: post #259
buellerbueller wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If McD builds outside of Smallville, they don't get any of the services that Smallville taxes subsidize. Smallville taxes serve Smallvillians, not corporate villains.

True. But McD may decide that the services in developer-friendly Small Township are just as good, for their use case. And Smallville residents may be content to drive another 500 yards down Smallville-Littleton Rd., to spend their money at the new McD out in Smallville Twp. In public policy, everything is a tradeoff.

In which case, one might expect Borger Kong to build in developer-unfriendly Smallville, because they will capture the people driving outside of Smallville. All your arguments are easily countered by basic supply and demand hyoptheticals.

There is no reason that McDonald's shouldn't own the risk of developing a McDonalds, and instead make secret deals with local governments to offset some of that risk. Thats a cost that should be borne by the business.

Re: Wisconsin communities signed secrecy deals for billion-dollar data centers

#326

Post by brightball »

snarf21 wrote: post #111
simianwords wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this will age poorly. you have both Google, Tesla/X betting on it. They are not stupid and probably have given it way more thought than people's whose paycheques not tied to this have thought about. This is an ambitious bet, with some possibility of failure but it should say a lot that these companies are investing in them. I wonder what people think, are these companies so naive? Edit: Elon, Sundar, Jensen, Jeff are…

Serious question: If you are so sure that this is a big payday, have you put all your net worth into SpaceX? Seems like a no brainer if you fully believe it. The reason for this "data centers in space" is the same as the "sustained human colony on Mars". It is all pie in the sky ideas to drive valuation and increase Musk's wealth. Just a small sampling of previous failed Musk promises: - demonstration drive of full a…

The thing about Elon is that he's got more than enough credibility with betting on big crazy ideas that he's one of a few people that you have to take seriously.

Tesla from LA to NY - https://www.thedrive.com/news/a-tesla-actually-drove-itself-...

Thousand of Optimus Robots...just announced closing a factory to have them focus on robot production - https://www.cnbc.com/2026/01/28/tesla-ending-model-s-x-produ...

SpaceX rewriting the entire economic formula for space launches, accounting for almost 90% of all launches globally last year, becoming a critical piece of the Department of Defense while also launching Starlink globally.

Neuralink let's people control computers with their brain, even playing video games. They're working on an implant to cure blindness right now.

https://neuralink.com/trials/visual-prosthesis/

I get that the man is politically unpopular in some circles, but it's really difficult to bet against him at this point. So far, the biggest criticism has been that it took a little longer than he initially said to deliver...but he did deliver.

Re: Wisconsin communities signed secrecy deals for billion-dollar data centers

#327

Post by expedition32 »

upboundspiral wrote: post #269
dguest wrote: post #39

I'd like to hear the argument for why this is needed. I can imagine a number of reasons, but this is all I found in the article: > If I’m a company considering making strategic investments... I don’t want my competition to know where I’m going, what I’m doing, what pace I’m doing it at... You want to make sure everything is buttoned up and bow tied before that type of information is put into the public realm. I'm hav…

What I've come to realize is that the rust belt states have been in huge trouble for decades. They were living in "benevolent feudalism" when GM, Ford, etc all had factories there. The problem is that these companies effectively owned the cities in which they operated. And then they left. Since the Reagan years we decided to export everything that built our economy so the landlords in power could have even more profi…

Unfortunately for the rust belt states data centers don't bring in a lot of jobs.

No well educated highly paid person wants to live in the middle of nowhere. Wisconsin will never be Seattle, Boston or NYC.

Re: Wisconsin communities signed secrecy deals for billion-dollar data centers

#328

Post by GorbachevyChase »

convolvatron wrote: post #258
GorbachevyChase wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The elected representation agreed to this, and a with a bit of imagination, you can list a few reasons for exercising an NDA before a vote: - Avoid the large and well-funded network of professional activists in the US from sabotaging the property and injuring locals - Avoid local political actors from spreading fear and misinformation just for the sake of grandstanding. - Avoid activist attorneys and judges from acro…

I wish I didn't feel so compelled to wade into this comment. After reading it several times I just can't make sense of it. Surely its the tech-rich psychopaths and hedge fund managers (I dont think of them as being particularly progressive) that are asking city councils to sign NDAs and are funding these data centers in the first place? it really seems like you're blaming them for stirring up antipathy for the projec…

Larry Fink is personally responsible for more insane progressive policies and pogroms in publicly traded companies than any other single individual. Historically, maybe Lenin was worse. Brendan Eich, father of JavaScript, was excommunicated from Mozilla for having private opinions not in line with the progressive ersatz religion. You’re not being serious here.

There is nothing grass roots about “AI will cause drought and famine” nonsense coming from the infotainment content mills. I don’t blame anyone for keeping their work out of the hostile press.

Re: Wisconsin communities signed secrecy deals for billion-dollar data centers

#329

Post by scoofy »

upboundspiral wrote: post #269
dguest wrote: post #39

I'd like to hear the argument for why this is needed. I can imagine a number of reasons, but this is all I found in the article: > If I’m a company considering making strategic investments... I don’t want my competition to know where I’m going, what I’m doing, what pace I’m doing it at... You want to make sure everything is buttoned up and bow tied before that type of information is put into the public realm. I'm hav…

What I've come to realize is that the rust belt states have been in huge trouble for decades. They were living in "benevolent feudalism" when GM, Ford, etc all had factories there. The problem is that these companies effectively owned the cities in which they operated. And then they left. Since the Reagan years we decided to export everything that built our economy so the landlords in power could have even more profi…

I want to step in here and point to Strong Towns. It’s easy to say THAT the cities have owners, but not why. The why is the American development pattern that creates suburbia that can’t generate enough taxes to pay to maintain the town.

That’s the problem. Suburban infrastructure is wildly expensive. A return to dense walkable villages would, in large part, fix the problem.

https://www.strongtowns.org/

Re: Wisconsin communities signed secrecy deals for billion-dollar data centers

#330

Post by expedition32 »

kjkjadksj wrote: post #290
upboundspiral wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I've come to realize is that the rust belt states have been in huge trouble for decades. They were living in "benevolent feudalism" when GM, Ford, etc all had factories there. The problem is that these companies effectively owned the cities in which they operated. And then they left. Since the Reagan years we decided to export everything that built our economy so the landlords in power could have even more profi…

What is surprising is that to me where you see datacenter build out hand over fist isn’t really in the midwest where one might assume due to low land costs. Surprisingly, the heart of the datacenter buildout seems to be northern virginia. Not exactly a cheap land sort of former one horse town.

Latency I guess? I'm seeing this in my own country were everyone wants to be close to AMSIX. Which as you may have guessed also happens to be the most expensive and densely populated part of the country...
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