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Microsoft will give the FBI a Windows PC data encryption key if ordered

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Re: Microsoft will give the FBI a Windows PC data encryption key if ordered

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a catchy meme for sure, but when people actually start to believe - like for real, not just the usual talking shit that passes for "conversation" with normal people - that law enforcement officers are worse thugs than regular thugs -- that's a fast way to turn into a failed state, where that actually is true. Causality here actually works both ways, because in free(ish) societies, law enforcement derives its aut…

> when people actually start to believe... that law enforcement officers are worse thugs than regular thugs -- that's a fast way to turn into a failed state, where that actually is true. It's quite clear that if law enforcement officers are indeed worse or just like regular thugs the failed state will soon materialize regardless of what people think about the issue. Moreover, isn't the fastest way to a failed state t…

> isn't the fastest way to a failed state to have people believe that their security agencies are good and proper when in reality they aren't?

No, but it used to be.

The fastest way right now is propaganda.

I'm not sure when the transition happened exactly, given we've had smartphones and social media lies going around the world before fact checkers wake up (even a while back there were questions about if some violence or other was the same country or year), but right now any group with convenient access to a suitable AI can do something that passes well enough to fool a sufficient number of people to break everything.

This means that even if all the current stuff dies down in the USA, you can't go back to the old status quo. Free speech is really important (and not just for the public to take down the powerful, even the powerful themselves benefit from it to not become emperors who wear no clothes), but it's also extremely easy to exploit, and you can't even just rely on people learning to distrust certain sources as you have already started fighting over which sources to trust and fighting over the ability of anyone to say "${foo} is an untrustworthy source".

Re: Microsoft will give the FBI a Windows PC data encryption key if ordered

#322
post #140

The headline is misleading. It says that Microsoft will provide the key if asked , but the linked statement to Forbes says Microsoft will provide the key if it receives a valid legal order . These have different meanings. Microsoft is legally entitled to refuse a request from law enforcement, and subject to criminal penalties if it refuses a valid legal order. It does illustrate a significant vulnerability in that Mi…

That's a distinction without a difference. Microsoft should structure Windows such that they're unable to comply with such an order, however legal. There are practical cryptographic ways to do it: Microsoft just doesn't want to. Shame on them.

It is pretty uncontroverisal that the owner, in the sense of having responsibility and ultimate control, should control the cryptographic keys. I think the disagreement here is who owns the computer.

Re: Microsoft will give the FBI a Windows PC data encryption key if ordered

#323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And MacOS, which I suspect may be the more obvious choice for many users.

MacOS has basically the exactly same problem, ADP isn't enabled by default and your data gets backed up to iCloud unencrypted.

At least the option is there, unlike with MS. Also the option to (very clearly) create an offline account, which MS try very hard to stop you doing (read: don’t publish how, block off routes to doing it sequentially)

Re: Microsoft will give the FBI a Windows PC data encryption key if ordered

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought this was what happened. Clearly not :( That’s the idea with services like 1Password (which I suppose is ultimately doing the same thing) - you need both the key held on the device and the password. I suppose this all falls apart when the PC unlock password is your MS account password, the MS account can reset the local password. In Mac OS / Linux, you reset the login password, you loose the keychain.

On Linux the typical LUKS setup is entirely separate from the login password. You don't lose anything if you forget the login password. You can just reset it with a live USB or similar. If you mean the secure boot auto-unlock type of setup and you don't have a key backup, then you cannot reset your login password at all. You have to wipe the drive.

Keychain, not FDE.

Re: Microsoft will give the FBI a Windows PC data encryption key if ordered

#325
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree. If the path is shrouded behind key presses and commands which are unpublished by MS (and in some instances routes that have been closed), it may as well be.

> it may as well be. That defies the definition of "forced". Forced means no option. You can disagree all you want -- but at a technical level, you're incorrect.

X didn’t force Y to the ground. If Y had made different choices, worked out more, was stronger, Y could have fought back.

Re: Microsoft will give the FBI a Windows PC data encryption key if ordered

#327

Due to Third Party Doctrine, Microsoft doesn't even NEED a "legal order." It's merely a courtesy which they could change at any time. Based on the sheer number of third parties we're required to use for our day to day lives, that is ridiculous and Third Party Doctrine should be eliminated. Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-party_doctrine

>people who voluntarily give information to third parties Is it the case with BitLocker? The voluntary part.

From a legal perspective yes since the government didn't force you to

Re: Microsoft will give the FBI a Windows PC data encryption key if ordered

#329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a catchy meme for sure, but when people actually start to believe - like for real, not just the usual talking shit that passes for "conversation" with normal people - that law enforcement officers are worse thugs than regular thugs -- that's a fast way to turn into a failed state, where that actually is true. Causality here actually works both ways, because in free(ish) societies, law enforcement derives its aut…

Two weeks ago this would have been completely uncontroversial, but given the repeated executions by shooting people of probable opposite political conviction in the face, things just got a lot more complicated.

Yes agreed. And while I respect the FBI employees who stepped down because they refused to comply with such a shitty system, it's becoming only thugs being the only ones left in the FBI.

It's a complicated system indeed.

Re: Microsoft will give the FBI a Windows PC data encryption key if ordered

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The system handles these changes for the user automatically. The disk key is encrypted by user password, when user changes the password, the system completes disk key rollover automatically. Which means it will decrypt key with old password and then encrypt key with new password.

Windows also allows you to reset your user password via Microsoft, which complicates things a little

In practice, there's some bugs around this. There's no way to force Windows to update your password when you change it via Microsoft; I went through the password change due to Microsoft locking my Microsoft account, and Windows didn't update the password locally until I played around with group policy settings (that I'd never touched before) for password expiry and signed in via PIN and rebooted a dozen times (over the course of about 2 weeks).
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