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Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,UK

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Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,UK

#321

Post by pupppet »

oliwarner wrote: post #302
EastLondonCoder wrote: post #252

This isn’t really about Greenland’s strategic value; it’s about the category error. You can trade goods, sign treaties, and negotiate basing rights. You can’t “buy” a people or their sovereignty especially when they don’t consent. That’s why Europe responds with process and principle: normalize coercion-as-bargaining among allies and you’re reviving a pre-1945 model of politics Europe built institutions to prevent. I…

The US has some grace here as most of the negative feelings towards it dies with it's government. You're going to pick better next time, right?

Sort of. Those of us outside the US are aware his support hasn’t cratered. There’s going to be the concern the US will just swap him out for someone similar.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,UK

#322

Post by vidarh »

oliwarner wrote: post #302
EastLondonCoder wrote: post #252

This isn’t really about Greenland’s strategic value; it’s about the category error. You can trade goods, sign treaties, and negotiate basing rights. You can’t “buy” a people or their sovereignty especially when they don’t consent. That’s why Europe responds with process and principle: normalize coercion-as-bargaining among allies and you’re reviving a pre-1945 model of politics Europe built institutions to prevent. I…

The US has some grace here as most of the negative feelings towards it dies with it's government. You're going to pick better next time, right?

Picking better next time won't be enough unless a lot of work is done to put in place safeguards to make it impossible for a future government to act the same way.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,UK

#323

Post by cvwright »

alephnerd wrote: post #85
ancillary wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The linked article says the US has threatened to reduce its support, not committed to leave. Things are bad enough without exaggerating like this.

Functionally, us not participating in defense coordination mechanisms is the equivalent of leaving NATO, as we would not be able to unify response.

By that logic, the European members who didn’t meet their defense spending obligations for years and years have already left NATO too.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,UK

#326

Post by hobs »

adventured wrote: post #281
bojan wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be a horrible deal for the Greenlanders, and they know it - there were polls recently and Vance was pretty much told that when he visited there. The US is allowed for decades to have a military presence on Greenland, but the US Army has been diminishing it's presence as the time went by.

Up it to $5 million per Greenlander then. The US can afford to pull the trigger on a $250-$280 billion acquisition. The EU can't afford to counter it. To put that sum into perspective for the US economy: that's merely 2.x years of operating income for Google. There's no scenario where the people of Greenland reject that $250b offer in a free vote.

Sure they would, because it's fucking stupid. There's no need to entertain such fucking stupid thoughts, just say no to how stupid it is and move on.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,UK

#327

Post by garganzol »

maxloh wrote: post #165

I wonder how the current events in Greenland will impact the safety and sovereignty of Taiwan. The US is Taiwan’s most important military ally, even if that relationship remains unofficial. It is also the most critical power in the First Island Chain. If the US stopped being a global superpower, countries like Japan and South Korea might not be willing to aid in defending Taiwan on their own.

The situation with Taiwan will explode because putinism is being normalized. Welcome to the dark era.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,UK

#328

Post by r_lee »

LightBug1 wrote: post #316
r_lee wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just a dictionary definition, there's a real threshold for what can be considered psychopathy in clinical terms. You could say that about a lot of people you don't like. I'm not saying there's some traits, but we could say that about many people. He's narcissistic for sure and charismatic, but again... If you want something more likely, look up NPD: Key Characteristics Grandiosity: Exaggerated sense of self-…

Ok, fair enough, thanks. I can roll with that. But in summary: we have a problem.

That I can agree with. Especially now that he's aging and is displaying clear signs of cognitive decline.

I can see he's also being increasingly influenced by his circle like Miller, also for the fact that unlike in 2017, there was no huge line of people coming to the administration, but after his first term now we have all these guys orbiting him trying to use him as a vehicle to push their policy.

And it seems to be fairly easy, just stoke him a bit saying "they don't want you to do this because they think you're weak!!"

And you can see it with the whole excessive gifting by foreign leaders. It works. Myself I'd be insulted because it feels so fake, but he seems to be unaware.

The guy's ego has blown up like crazy this past decade.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,UK

#329

Post by cluckindan »

legitster wrote: post #217

Even all of the purely imperialistic stated reasons for taking Greenland make no sense. National security? We already have the right to station as many troops there as we want! And we have actually removed troops recently. Mineral rights? America is already richly endowed - its just impossible to access what we have when permitting is almost impossible. If there were actually valuable lodes in Greenland, it would pro…

It is dividing EU military resources, which potentially weakens the security of EU states against a potential invasion.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,UK

#330

Post by QuiEgo »

csense wrote: post #177

I think the administration's real goal isn't taking over Greenland. I think it's scaring the EU enough about the possibility the US might take over Greenland that the EU pays to fortify it so the US doesn't have to. (Somebody needs to fortify it, because the world is warming and it will become a strategically important trade choke point when a Northwest Passage opens up.) Just like Trump being hot-and-cold on Ukraine…

This comment assumes Trump has some grand plan and is playing 4D chess.

The simplest explanation is usually the correct one.

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