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The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

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Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#321

Post by iamnothere »

ActorNightly wrote: post #317
iamnothere wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totalitarianism has the same end state whether it comes from the left or the right. It always results in suppression of the truth, broken feedback loops that lead to poor decisions by government, economic failure, and finally either bloody repression, war, or revolution. It’s possible to move through this to a place of stability. After all, China only had to kill 15-55 million people in the Great Leap Forward and a c…

Both extreme leftism and extreme rightism are composed of the same people - more focused on ideology rather than truth, and authoritarian control rather than voice of reason. In the middle, there is an acceptable range of compromise. Social media is the new town square. People shouldn't be able to post stuff on there without recourse for lying and spreading misinformation, just like they shouldn't be able to do this…

Historically, at least in the US, people are indeed explicitly allowed to lie or spread misinformation in the town square. This is specifically allowed by the first amendment and backed by court cases. Your mention of the “town square” here is interesting, as Marsh v. Alabama and Pruneyard Shopping Center v. Robins both center around this idea. In both cases the Supreme Court ruled that unrestricted free speech was allowed in the town square, whether it was a company town or a shopping mall, so long as the location was effectively serving as a surrogate town square.

Now of course this is about the UK. But to my knowledge and based on research there are no laws or cases about lying in public. As long as you aren’t committing perjury or slander, or urging violence, or inciting a panic, this isn’t illegal.

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#322

Post by varispeed »

owisd wrote: post #243
iamnothere wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which can be undone by another single act of your “sovereign” Parliament. Acts like this must be understood in that context.

This works both ways though, ie there’s no point opposing the laws on the grounds that they might be abused in future because the future sovereign parliament could just pass the same abusable laws.

It's not always easy. If they don't have large majority, some with a bit of conscience might go against the party.

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#323

Post by foldr »

mike_hearn wrote: post #289
foldr wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it’s correct. Violent crime in London and the UK more generally has been on a long term downward trend. This is not incompatible with there being spikes in some specific categories of crime. But it’s consistent with the trends for homicide, for which the statistics are pretty hard to dispute, and where London has fewer per capita than Berlin, Brussels and Paris ( https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/jan/12/l…

Stats can almost always be disputed unfortunately. One reason homicides are down is because hospitals have got better at keeping stabbing victims alive. Stripped of context it looks like a win. Put in context the question becomes, why are there so many stabbing victims? Gang crime, etc.

Hospital admissions for knife injuries are also down, so it's not that (see e.g. https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn04...)

Also, hospitals have got better at treating knife injuries in lots of places, not just London. This would not explain why London has a low homicide rate per capita compared to lots of other cities.

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#324

Post by joe463369 »

JCattheATM wrote: post #271
joe463369 wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/abolish-the-mona... > Police Scotland said the 22-year-old woman arrested outside St Giles’ Cathedral in Edinburgh on Sunday had been arrested for “breach of the peace”. > The woman was holding a sign reading “f** imperialism, abolish monarchy”, but the sign is not understood to be the reason for her arrest

Not sure what your point is here.

You've backtracked from your 'blank sign' position. I'm pointing out that your "People were just arrested for holding up signs like 'abolish monarchy'" might be on similarly shaky ground.

If it's not clear, I'm also heavily implying that you should be questioning the veracity of whatever source you're getting this easily-debunked tripe from.

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#325

Post by JCattheATM »

joe463369 wrote: post #324
JCattheATM wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what your point is here.

You've backtracked from your 'blank sign' position. I'm pointing out that your "People were just arrested for holding up signs like 'abolish monarchy'" might be on similarly shaky ground. If it's not clear, I'm also heavily implying that you should be questioning the veracity of whatever source you're getting this easily-debunked tripe from.

> You've backtracked from your 'blank sign' position.

I wouldn't say backtracked. I acknowledged a correction. The pont still stands, people are being arrested and/or intimidated by police for expressing a non-hatespeech, non-violent opinion.

> I'm pointing out that your "People were just arrested for holding up signs like 'abolish monarchy'" might be on similarly shaky ground.

I gave a source elsewhere in this thread.

> If it's not clear, I'm also heavily implying that you should be questioning the veracity of whatever source you're getting this easily-debunked tripe from.

It's not tripe, and if you want to attempt to go ahead and debunk it. I was wrong about the arrest for the blank sign as admitted, I'm not wrong about people being arrested for holding up signs expressing non-hatespeech, non-violent opinions, for which sources are abundant.

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#326

Post by Zizizizz »

miroljub wrote: post #291
Zizizizz wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe if he didn't have a gun she wouldn't have been shot.

You just gave one more argument for having guns. If he didn't have a gun, maybe he would be driven over by the car. Possibly a few more people too. In Europe, where guns are less prevalent, cars are the favorite weapon used by terrorists. Luckily, he had a gun, so he was able to save himself and who knows how many more people by shooting an attacker.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-r...

People in the US get killed at a higher rate than all European countries by vehicles.

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