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BYD's cheapest electric cars to have Lidar self-driving tech

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Re: BYD's cheapest electric cars to have Lidar self-driving tech

#321

Post by wolvoleo »

rafabulsing wrote: post #314
wolvoleo wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me any kind of driving is torture. I don't want the responsibility, the risk, the chance of fines if I miss a speed sign somewhere. And if my car could self drive I could spend the time usefully instead of wasting it on driving. It would be amazing. Right now I don't even have a car but for getting around outside of the city it's difficult sometimes.

Yeah, I feel ya. I don't mind it, but I'm far from loving it. What particularly stresses me out is how I can be screwed even doing everything correctly, if someone else screws up. All reasons why I think public transit is the better solution over self driving cars. They're generally much safer, and also you get to do something while you're on the go. Pretty nifty, I think.

Yes that's why I don't own a car. In a big city public transit is amazing. I spend 20 bucks a month on unlimited travel. That won't even buy me a headlight bulb for a car these days lol. When I still owned one I had to pay for the car, insurance, road tax, fuel, maintenance, parking, tolls. It felt like it was dragging me down the whole time. It's insane how much costs add up.

I love public transport and an added benefit is: I don't have to go back to where I left it. I often take a metro from A to B, walk to C and then get a bus back to A or something. Can't do that with a car, as such I tend to walk a lot more now. Because it's a hassle-free option now. The world seems more open for exploration when I don't have to worry about returning to the car, or having a drink, or the parking meter expiring. I really don't get that people consider cars freedom.

Of course once you go outside the city it's a different story, even here in Europe. Luckily I don't need to go there so much. But that's something that should be improved. On the weekend here in the city the metro runs 24/7 and the regional trains really should too but they don't.

Re: BYD's cheapest electric cars to have Lidar self-driving tech

#322

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

schiffern wrote: post #309
ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That always struck me as a weak argument. Humans don't have wheels, so maybe he should have designed cars without wheels too.

That strikes me as a weak argument. We have vehicles with legs, but wheels are just better, practically speaking. The argument is that humans provide a proof-of-concept that vision + neural net can drive a car, because (for some reason) some people doubt this is possible. However there's no need for a "proof of concept" that mechanical legs can be built, because everyone already know that building mechanical legs is…

Similarly, vehicles using cameras and lidar are just better, practically speaking.

Re: BYD's cheapest electric cars to have Lidar self-driving tech

#323

Post by wtcactus »

senti_sentient wrote: post #318
wtcactus wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Chinese cars have come a long way, most of them have better quality than any European maker. That's just not true. They absolutely don't. There's no chance in hell most (or any for that matter) Chinese carmaker has better quality than a Volvo, or a BMW, or a Mercedes or an Audi, or, etc, etc

Feel free to live in your cocoon, I have owned several euro cars, including e36 m3. Now own BYD Dolphin and Shark, the European car industry is history mate.

Sure we should all trust your word instead of the readily available stats that say exactly the opposite..

Re: BYD's cheapest electric cars to have Lidar self-driving tech

#324

Post by schiffern »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #322
schiffern wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That strikes me as a weak argument. We have vehicles with legs, but wheels are just better, practically speaking. The argument is that humans provide a proof-of-concept that vision + neural net can drive a car, because (for some reason) some people doubt this is possible. However there's no need for a "proof of concept" that mechanical legs can be built, because everyone already know that building mechanical legs is…

Similarly, vehicles using cameras and lidar are just better, practically speaking.

Maybe, but those claims have yet to be shown in the real world.

Waymo has certainly had its share of issues lately on the "practicality" axis. The cost of (actually good enough) LiDAR hardware doesn't help practicality either.

Re: BYD's cheapest electric cars to have Lidar self-driving tech

#325

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

schiffern wrote: post #324
ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similarly, vehicles using cameras and lidar are just better, practically speaking.

Maybe, but those claims have yet to be shown in the real world. Waymo has certainly had its share of issues lately on the "practicality" axis. The cost of (actually good enough) LiDAR hardware doesn't help practicality either.

> Maybe, but those claims have yet to be shown in the real world.

They surely have as Waymo have a much better safety record than Tesla and that's even with Tesla hiding and obscuring their crash data - probably outright lying about most crashes if Musk has any input to their processes.

The big advantage of Lidar is that it can easily pick out obstructions and that's a good ability for a driver to have, whereas Teslas can get fooled by shadows etc. It seems obvious to me that having cameras and Lidar allows for much better analysis of traffic and pedestrians.

Re: BYD's cheapest electric cars to have Lidar self-driving tech

#326

Post by schiffern »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #325
schiffern wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, but those claims have yet to be shown in the real world. Waymo has certainly had its share of issues lately on the "practicality" axis. The cost of (actually good enough) LiDAR hardware doesn't help practicality either.

> Maybe, but those claims have yet to be shown in the real world. They surely have as Waymo have a much better safety record than Tesla and that's even with Tesla hiding and obscuring their crash data - probably outright lying about most crashes if Musk has any input to their processes. The big advantage of Lidar is that it can easily pick out obstructions and that's a good ability for a driver to have, whereas Tesla…

  >They surely have as Waymo have a much better safety record than Tesla
Tesla is already closing in on Waymo to within a factor of 2[0], and this is less than 6 months in, with Waymo having 125 million autonomous miles and Tesla having under a million. Bet on whichever horse you want, but this trend is not looking good for Waymo.

  >It seems obvious to me
Oh thank goodness! Fortunately this style of argument has never been wrong before. ;)

[0] https://mashable.com/article/tesla-robotaxis-with-human-safe...

Re: BYD's cheapest electric cars to have Lidar self-driving tech

#327

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

schiffern wrote: post #326
ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe, but those claims have yet to be shown in the real world. They surely have as Waymo have a much better safety record than Tesla and that's even with Tesla hiding and obscuring their crash data - probably outright lying about most crashes if Musk has any input to their processes. The big advantage of Lidar is that it can easily pick out obstructions and that's a good ability for a driver to have, whereas Tesla…

>They surely have as Waymo have a much better safety record than Tesla Tesla is already closing in on Waymo to within a factor of 2[0], and this is less than 6 months in, with Waymo having 125 million autonomous miles and Tesla having under a million. Bet on whichever horse you want, but this trend is not looking good for Waymo. >It seems obvious to me Oh thank goodness! Fortunately this style of argument has never b…

It's amusing that in the article you linked to is precisely the kind of collision that Lidar would have easily prevented.

Re: BYD's cheapest electric cars to have Lidar self-driving tech

#328

Post by DustinBrett »

refulgentis wrote: post #206
DustinBrett wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I told you it wasn't without drivers, so where is the response there or acknowledgment of the fact they all went down?

It’s because you spam this thread so much with such aggressive language that it honestly is scary to deal with you. You’re smart Darren, and so are other people, you should assume I knew the cars have remote backup operators. Again, you’re smart, you also know why that doesn’t mitigate having a scaled robotaxi service vs. nothing I doubt you’ll chill out but here’s a little behind the scenes peek for you that also di…

I can't tell if this was suppose to be for me, I am not Darren. The reply was on my thread...

My replies are at the same level as that which I respond to, never aggressive IMO.

And if you "knew" something about the relevant topic and leave it out, that in itself is part of the dishonesty.

So once you got a job at Google then you felt Waymo was better, hmmm.

Tesla has a robot taxi service that in some cases has nobody in the car. Also everyone that owns a Tesla has experienced FSD in which it goes from A to B without being touched which is the same as it driving by itself. A person just went cross country and back with this. So to say Tesla is doing none of the 100,000 things you think are required, I think that says more about what someone at Google thinks is needed vs what is happening on the ground.

I am not against remote operation in some cases, but those suggesting Waymo has solved this need to admit that it relies heavily on them for basic decision, like what to do when the power goes out at intersections.

Re: BYD's cheapest electric cars to have Lidar self-driving tech

#329

Post by DustinBrett »

imtringued wrote: post #240
DustinBrett wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I told you it wasn't without drivers, so where is the response there or acknowledgment of the fact they all went down?

This is such a weird take when Elon Musk is still letting his Optimus robots be teleoperated for basically every live demo. If you're lenient with him, it's completely unreasonable to be strict with Waymo, which works autonomously the vast majority of time.

Optimus is early days, and my take isn't against remote operators but pointing out that Waymo relies on them much more than Tesla. You can go from 1 side of the country to the other without ever touching the wheel, something Waymo could not do. And the SF power outage incident showed us that it is actually only autonomous until it isn't, then you have a bunch of cars that can't move and won't and do not.

Re: BYD's cheapest electric cars to have Lidar self-driving tech

#330

Post by DustinBrett »

Mawr wrote: post #307
DustinBrett wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We being who? What is your evidence it's better? The fact all the cars stopped moving when the power went out? The fact they cost WayMore? Show the evidence for your claims. And they have remote operators as proven by the power outage.

Waymo operates without a safety driver. That's a slam dunk right there. No, some edge case that made the cars fail safely during a power outage doesn't compare. If that's the best you can come up with, you've got nothing.

The safety driver is the remote operator that makes decisions for things as basic as uncontrolled intersections.
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