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Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use

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Re: Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use

#321

Post by _aavaa_ »

Devasta wrote: post #193
theshrike79 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IDEs now have “AI” autocomplete; will a game become ineligible if a single dev accidentally presses tab instead of writing the whole function by hand? If a script writer uses ChatGPT to generate ideas, straight up ban? Where does the organisation intend to draw the line?

> Where does the organisation intend to draw the line? The answer to this question is always "somewhere". Just because I can't proclaim an exact number of trees that constitute a forest doesn't mean the concept doesn't exist.

> doesn't mean the concept doesn't exist.

No, but it becomes a dubious concept when you define forests as a collection of only conifer trees and that deciduous trees don't count for the definition of a forest.

Re: Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use

#322

Post by Ukv »

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #43
blackbrokkoli wrote: post #13

Is anyone else detecting a phase shift in LLM criticism? Of course you could always find opinion pieces, blogs and nerdy forum comments that disliked AI; but it appears to me that hate for AI gen content is now hitting mainstream contexts, normie contexts. Feels like my grandma may soon have an opinion on this. No idea what the implications are or even if this is actually something that's happening, but I think it's…

It feels like a similar trend to the one that NFTs followed: huge initial hype, stoked up by tech bros and swallowed by a general public lacking a deep understanding, tempered over time as that public learns more of the problematic aspects that detractors publicise.

I don't feel NFTs ever really had much interest among the general public - average reaction just being "I don't get it, that sounds pointless".

Whereas AI seemed to have a pretty good run for around a decade, with lots of positive press around breakthroughs and genuine interest if you showed someone AI Dungeon, DALL-E 2, etc. before it split into polarized topic.

Re: Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use

#324

Post by j_w »

PunchyHamster wrote: post #243
blackbrokkoli wrote: post #13

Is anyone else detecting a phase shift in LLM criticism? Of course you could always find opinion pieces, blogs and nerdy forum comments that disliked AI; but it appears to me that hate for AI gen content is now hitting mainstream contexts, normie contexts. Feels like my grandma may soon have an opinion on this. No idea what the implications are or even if this is actually something that's happening, but I think it's…

It's because amount of AI slop bombarding people from every side increased and created knee-jerk reaction to anything AI, even if it is actually the "remove the boring part of work"

The issue with "removing the boring part of work" is that which part of the work is "boring" is subjective. There are going to be plenty of people that don't think that what they do is the "boring stuff that should be automated away." Whether this is genuine enjoyment for what they do or just an attempt to protect their career, both are valid feelings to have.

Re: Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use

#325

Post by mingus88 »

PunchyHamster wrote: post #235
huhtenberg wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generating a brick wall texture using an AI should be acceptable as well, even when it's not a placeholder.

Yeah I'm fine with replacing generic stuff with generic AI stuff. Or cutting out the boring part, nobody needs to spend hours manually lip-syncing character or generating thousands of intermediate movement animation steps.

When genAI started making waves my first thought literally was how awesome it would be to flesh out NPC dialog.

It’s immersion breaking to try and talk to a random character only to hit a loop of one or two sentences.

How awesome would it be for every character to be able to have believable small talk, with only a small prompt? And it wouldn’t affect the overall game at all, because obviously the designers never cared to put in that work themselves

GenAI doing chore work is IMO the best use case

Re: Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use

#326

Post by program_whiz »

stinkbeetle wrote: post #68
hambes wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, but that is a different issue. The use of generative AI for art is being rightfully criticised because it steals from artists. Generative AI for source code learns from developers - who mostly publish their source with licenses that allow this. The quality suffers in both cases and I would personally criticise generative AI in source code as well, but the ethical argument is only against profiting from artists…

> The use of generative AI for art is being rightfully criticised because it steals from artists. Generative AI for source code learns from developers - who mostly publish their source with licenses that allow this. This reasoning is invalid. If AI is doing nothing but simply "learning from" like a human, then there is no "stealing from artists" either. A person is allowed to learn from copyright content and create w…

Everyone in this thread keeps treating human learning and art the same as clearly automated statistical processes with massive tech backing.

Analogy: the common area had grass for grazing which local animals could freely use. Therefore, it's no problem that megacorp has come along and created a massive machine which cuts down all the trees and grass which they then sell to local farmers. After all, those resources were free, the end product is the same, and their machine is "grazing" just like the animals. Clearly animals graze, and their new "gazelle 3000" should have the same rights to the common grazing area -- regardless of what happens to the other animals.

Re: Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use

#327

Post by program_whiz »

sergioisidoro wrote: post #121

This is crazy. Tools like photoshoot have gen ai tools in them. Does that mean that Photoshop is now a minefield for artists? If a single artist uses the wrong tool once they disqualify the entire final product for awards, even if the asset is fully removed on the final build.

Ultimately this move might have just been to increase visibility for an otherwise niche awards show (which it has clearly done). Also by eliminating the obvious best indie game of the year -- it opens up the field a bit to more "normal" contenders. Expedition 33 is basically a AAA-quality game, its only considered "indie" because a small unknown team made it.

Re: Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use

#328

Post by dragonwriter »

sph wrote: post #184
dragonwriter wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, AFAICT, AI hate has been common (but not the majority position, and still not) in normie contexts for a while.

You’re reading it wrong: rather, AI hype had been common (but not the majority position) in tech contexts for a while, especially from those that have something to sell you. What you derogatorily call normies are the rest of the world caring about their business until one day some tech wiz came around to say “hey, I have built a machine to replace all of you! Our next goal is to invent something even smarter under ou…

> You’re reading it wrong

No, I don't think I am.

> AI hype had been common (but not the majority position) in tech contexts for a while, especially from those that have something to sell you.

There's a whole lot of that for quite a long time targeting normie contexts, too; in fact, the hate in normie contexts is directly responsive to it, because the hype in normie contexts is a lot of particularly clumsy grifting plus the nontechnical PR of the big AI vendors (which categories overlap quite a bit, especially in Sam Altman’s case), and the hate in normy contexts shows basically zero understanding of even what AI is beyond what could be gleaned from that hyper plus some critical pieces on broad (e.g., total water and energy use, RAM price) and localized (e.g., from fossil fuel power plants in poor neighborhoods directly tied to demand from data centers) economic and environmental impacts.

> What you derogatorily call normies

I am not using “normie” derogatorily, I am using it to contrast to tech contexts.

Re: Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use

#329

Post by queenkjuul »

PunchyHamster wrote: post #233
latexr wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the submitted article: > "When it was submitted for consideration, representatives of Sandfall Interactive agreed that no gen AI was used in the development of Clair Obscur: Expedition 33. In light of Sandfall Interactive confirming the use of gen AI art in production on the day of the Indie Game Awards 2025 premiere, this does disqualify Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 from its nomination." Whatever placeholder you…

> Whatever placeholder you use is part of your development process, whether it ships or not. Saying they used none when they did is not cool and rightfully makes one wonder what other uses they may be hiding (or “forgetting”). Especially when apparently they only clarified it when it was too late. If it was malicious they wouldn't say a word. They probably interpreted the rule as "nothing in shipped game is AI" (whic…

Malicious or not, they didn't follow the rules, and admitted as much. So why is it a problem they lose the award?

Re: Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use

#330

Post by queenkjuul »

NeutralCrane wrote: post #269
itishappy wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this actually a problem? Is there anybody actually arguing against line smoothing algorithms?

That’s the point. No one cares about line smoothing algorithms but they lose their mind if it’s background textures or throwaway voice lines.

No artists were previously smoothing lines for a living but they were painting textures and voice acting
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