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PS5 now costs less than 64GB of DDR5 memory. RAM jumps to $600 due to shortage

tomshardware.com

321–330 of 402 posts

Re: PS5 now costs less than 64GB of DDR5 memory. RAM jumps to $600 due to shortage

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unfortunately, software got slower more quickly than hardware got quicker. Hard disagree. A $600 Mac Mini with 16GB of RAM runs everything insanely faster than even my $5000 company-purchased developer laptops from 10 years ago. And yes, even when I run Slack, Visual Studio Code, Spotify, and a gazillion Chrome tabs. The HN rhetoric about modern computing being slow is getting strangely disconnected from the real w…

You brought up a light computing load that a laptop from like 2005 wouldn't struggle with? People ran multiple browser windows, a 3D video game, irc (chat application), teamspeak/ventrilo (voice chat) and winamp (music) all at once back in the early 2000s. This is something an 8 year old phone can do these days.

I’m responding to the comment above claiming that modern software is slow on modern hardware. It’s an HN meme to claim that Electron apps are unusable.

Re: PS5 now costs less than 64GB of DDR5 memory. RAM jumps to $600 due to shortage

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This AI movement seems to move things in the opposite direction, in that us plebeians have less and less access to RAM, computing power and food and...uh...GPUs to play Cyberpunk; and are dependent on Altermanic aristocracy to dribble compute onto us at their leisure and for a hefty tithe. Compute is cheaper than ever. The ceiling is just higher for what you can buy. Yes, we have $2000 GPUs now. You don't have to b…

The problem is the VRAM segmentation. A GTX 1080 came out in the first half of 2016. It had 8 GB of VRAM and cost $599 with a TDP of 180W. A GTX 1080 Ti came out in 2017 and had 11 GB of VRAM at $799. In 2025 you can get the RTX 5070 with 12 GB of VRAM. They say the price is $549, but good luck finding them at that price. And the thing with VRAM is that if you run out of it then performance drops off a cliff. Nothing…

> "They say the price is $549, but good luck finding them at that price."

I did one Google search for "rtx 5070 newegg usa" and they have MSI Ventus GeForce RTX 5070 12G down from $559 to $499 for Black Friday, and ASUS Prime RTX 5070 12GB for $543.

https://www.newegg.com/msi-geforce-rtx-5070-12g-ventus-2x-oc...

https://www.newegg.com/asus-prime-rtx5070-12g-geforce-rtx-50...

Re: PS5 now costs less than 64GB of DDR5 memory. RAM jumps to $600 due to shortage

#323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When I zoom all the way out, all of consumer computation has existed as sort of an addendum or ancillary organ to the big customers: government, large corporations, etc. Perfectly stated. I think comments like the one above come from a mentality that the individual consumer should be the center of the computing universe and big purchasers should be forced to live with the leftovers. What's really happening is the b…

The iPhone wasn't designed or marketed to large corporations. 3dfx didn't invent the voodoo for B2B sales. IBM didn't branch out from international business machines to the personal computer for business sales. The compact disc wasn't invented for corporate storage. Computing didn't take off until it shrank from the giant, unreliable beasts of machines owned by a small number of big corporations to the home computers…

> 3dfx didn't invent the voodoo for B2B sales.

3Dfx was not the inventor of the GPU. There’s a long history of GPU development for corporate applications.

The iPhone wasn’t the first mobile phone. Early mobile phones were very expensive and targeted as businesses who wanted their executives in touch

You’re still thinking from a consumer-centric view. Zoom out and those consumer companies were not the first to develop the products. You didn't even think about the actual originators of those types of products because you don’t see them as a consumer.

Re: PS5 now costs less than 64GB of DDR5 memory. RAM jumps to $600 due to shortage

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When I zoom all the way out, all of consumer computation has existed as sort of an addendum or ancillary organ to the big customers: government, large corporations, etc. Perfectly stated. I think comments like the one above come from a mentality that the individual consumer should be the center of the computing universe and big purchasers should be forced to live with the leftovers. What's really happening is the b…

> We wouldn't have incredible GPUs in our gaming systems and even cell phones if the primary market for these things was retail entertainment purchases that people make every 5 years. Arguably we don't. Most of the improvements these days seem to be on the GPGPU side with very little gains in raster performance this decade.

> with very little gains in raster performance this decade.

I have a flagship 7-8 year old GPU in one machine and a mid-level modern GPU in another.

It’s flat out wrong to claim “very little gains” during this time. The difference between those two GPUs is huge in games. The modern GPU also does it with far less power and noise.

I can’t understand this HN mentality that modern hardware isn’t fast or that we’re not seeing gains.

Re: PS5 now costs less than 64GB of DDR5 memory. RAM jumps to $600 due to shortage

#325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends a lot on the oil field, geology is random

none of those finished products come out of the ground that way.

That way? I was trying to say that the mix of hydrocarbon molecules is different for each and every oil field due to local geological variation. Even within the field, since eg lighter molecules presumably come out first.

Re: PS5 now costs less than 64GB of DDR5 memory. RAM jumps to $600 due to shortage

#326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flight simulators just had more cash for more advanced chips, but arcade games like the Sega Model 1 (Virtua Racing) was via Virtua Fighter an inspiration for the Playstation, and before that there was crude games on both PC and Amiga. Games were always going to go 3d sooner or later, the real pressure of the high volume competitive market got us more and more capable chips until they were capable enough for the kind…

> Flight simulators just had more cash for more advanced chips Yes. That is my point. The customers willing to pay the high initial R+D costs opened up the potential for wider adoption. This is always the case. Even the gaming GPUs which have grown in popularity with consumers are derivatives of larger designs intended for research clusters, datacenters, aerospace, and military applications. No question that chip com…

Computers themselves were non-consumer to begin with, but the Personal Computer broke the technology moat to consumers before anything else and once that had passed it was mostly a matter of time imho.

Many 3d games like doom, quake1, flight unlimited,etc ran purely on software rendering since CPU's were already providing enough oomph to render fairly useful 3d graphics in the mid 90s. CPU power was enough but consoles/arcades showed that there was more to be gotten (but nothing hindered games at that point).

And already there, the capital investment for game consoles (Atari,NES,SNES,PS1,PS2, etc) and arcade games(like the above mentioned 3d games) were big enough to use custom chipsets not used or purposed for anything else (I think also that in the 80s/90s the barrier of entry to making competitive custom chips was a tad lower, just consider the cambrian explosions of firms during the 90s making x86 and later ARM chips).

Yes, there was vendors that focused on the high end commercial customers, and yes many alumnis of those firms did contribute a ton of expertise towards what we have today.

But if you look at what companies survived and pushed the envelope in the longer run it was almost always companies that competed in the consumer market, and it was only when those consumer chips needed even more advanced processing that we breached the point where the chips became capable of NN's.

In fact I'd say that had the likes of SGI prevailed we would've had to wait longer for our GPU revolution. Flight simulators,etc were often focused on "larger/detailed" worlds, PS2-era chips with higher polycounts and more memory would have been fine for simulator developers for a long time (since more details in a military scenario would have been fine).

Leisure games has always craved fidelity on a more "human" level, to implement "hacks" for stuff with custom dynamic lighting models, then global illumination, subsurface scattering,etc we've needed the arbitrary programmability since the raw power wasn't there (the most modern raytracing chips are _starting_ to approach that levels without too ugly hacks).

Re: PS5 now costs less than 64GB of DDR5 memory. RAM jumps to $600 due to shortage

#327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe that is the answer to how things are supposed to work if AI replaces everyone and no one can afford to buy their stuff. Things being too cheap allows money to pool at the bottom in little people's hands in the forms of things like "their homes" and "their computers" and "their cars". You don't really want billions in computing hardware (say) being stashed down there in inefficient, illiquid physical form, you w…

Until I got the last part, I actually thought you were being serious.

The important thing is that the people who actually do matter here are being very serious.

And I assume some of them read these threads, so my advice to them would be to remember that the bunker air vents will probably be the main weak point.

Re: PS5 now costs less than 64GB of DDR5 memory. RAM jumps to $600 due to shortage

#328
post #310
post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a system designed not for human flourishing but pure profit But please, don't be coy: tell us about that other system that is designed for "human flourishing" - we're dying to learn about it. Because I grew up under communism and I lived its miserable failures: the non-profit system didn't even manage to feed, cloth or warm/cool us. > new human-focused modes of living and organizing society Oh, these sounds sooo pr…

They didn't say communism was the only other option; this seems like a bad faith reply. Capitalism increasingly fails to provide well-being to the majority of the global population. It's obvious we need to come up with something else, even if it's not clear yet what shape that will take. If we can't find an alternative that works, we can also just wind down humanity, and not much of value to the universe will be lost…

But there's solutions proposed all the time; tax the rich, tax the corporations, and use that money for socialist policies, like the ones being dismantled by the US right now. Regulate the biggest expenses like health care, housing and energy, restrict how much datacenters can use as their consumption drives up the prices, etc.

You don't need to go full communist to make things better.

Re: PS5 now costs less than 64GB of DDR5 memory. RAM jumps to $600 due to shortage

#329
post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ding ding ding. What a surprise that a system designed not for human flourishing but pure profit would actually deliver massive profit with no regard for human flourishing. Humanity will have to adopt new human-focused modes of living and organizing society, or else. And climate change is coming along to make sure the owning class can't ignore this fact any longer.

> a system designed not for human flourishing but pure profit But please, don't be coy: tell us about that other system that is designed for "human flourishing" - we're dying to learn about it. Because I grew up under communism and I lived its miserable failures: the non-profit system didn't even manage to feed, cloth or warm/cool us. > new human-focused modes of living and organizing society Oh, these sounds sooo pr…

It's depressing how in the modern day you can't criticize capitalism without immediately being told that you must be a supporter of soviet-style authoritarian socialism

There are shades of grey here. Capitalism is a system with many inherent problems. Exploring alternatives is not the same thing as being a Stalinist

Re: PS5 now costs less than 64GB of DDR5 memory. RAM jumps to $600 due to shortage

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Except silicon, power, and water (and a tiny amount of plastic/paper for packaging), what else does a fab need that only produces DRAM? If true, then power is far and away the most variable input cost. Borrowing costs can be wildly variable and are the main cost of making silicon. All the "inputs" over the lifecycle of a fab are so completely dwarfed by the initial capital costs that you can pretty much ignore them…

This theory sounds nice, but do you have any sources to share? For example, I assume a fab runs for about 20-30 years. The labor inputs must be very high over this period. Basically, there are no poorly paid people inside a fab. And wouldn't "wildly variable borrowing costs" also affect oil and gas who need to finance the research phase and construction of the plant?

> For example, I assume a fab runs for about 20-30 years.

If only.

20 years ago, fabs were being built to use 90nm class technology. Chips made on such an old node are so cheap today it can't pay even fraction of a percent of the capital costs of the plant per year. So all of it's capital has to have been depreciated a long time ago.

The oldest process node in high-volume production for memory is currently 1α, which started production in January 2021. It is no longer capable of making high-end products and is definitely legacy, and also has to have essentially depreciated all of the capital costs. The time a high-end fab stays high-end and can command premium prices, and during which it has to depreciate all the capital is ~3-5 years. After that either you push the plant to produce legacy/low price and low margin items, or you rebuild it with new tools with costs >$10B.

Also, even if fabs did last 20-30 years, the capital costs would dominate.

> And wouldn't "wildly variable borrowing costs" also affect oil and gas who need to finance the research phase and construction of the plant?

I don't understand? Nothing else costs anywhere near as much capital to produce than silicon chips. Thanks to the inexorable force of Moore's second law, fabs are machines that turn capital investment into salable product, nothing like it has ever existed before.

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