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Racism at a gaming company

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Re: Racism at a gaming company

#321

Post by tptacek »

taligent wrote: post #316
tptacek wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, because Steve is surely not one of a tiny minority of white people in the office, nor is there a clear cultural connotation/prejudice of white people being thuggish. For whatever it's worth to you to know this: being considered thuggish, or violent, or hotheaded, or unreasonable is a hot-button issue for working black professionals. I've had neighbors complain to me that they can't disagree or argue with anything…

Your definition of thuggish seems a bit off. Thug = a common criminal, who treats others violently and roughly. It's akin to calling someone 'white trash'.

Is the point I'm making unclear? Would you like me to reword it? Is there a word you'd prefer I had used in that place instead?

Re: Racism at a gaming company

#322

Post by gizmo686 »

saraid216 wrote: post #274
mtrimpe wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yet another nail in the coffin of his credibility. Please understand that the anger such treatment (validly) brings about is incredibly hard to suppress. In that situation it's really hard to walk the line between expressing your emotions in such a way that it evokes similar emotions in others and not expressing so much anger that you will be classified as just bitter and vindictive.

> Please understand that the anger such treatment (validly) brings about is incredibly hard to suppress. And also, why should it be suppressed? Integration doesn't work if both parties pretend to be nice but are prepared to find a more underhanded way to stab each other in the back once the negotiations have ended.

Integration works fine if both parties pretend to play nice. The not nice people die off, and the young generation never thinks of being not nice.

Re: Racism at a gaming company

#323

Post by anthonyb »

JPKab wrote: post #121
king_jester wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the equivalent of saying the author of this post is a reverse racist. When was the last time a white person was killed for being white? When was the last time someone came up to a white person and said they should be grateful that their ancestors were slaves? When was the last time the government systematically dismantled the white community in order to enforce racist class oppression? Repeat after me: WHITE…

Take a walk through half of Baltimore, friend, and you will discover that you will get the shit kicked out of you for being white. Murdered? Hopefully not, but I can assure you that, while the old, racist, static power structures of the USA are oppressive towards non-whites, power is not a static thing. It shifts depending on where you are. When you are taking said walk in Baltimore, and become surrounded by people w…

And now imagine the entire country was like that half of Baltimore? How would you feel then? You can at least avoid that area - they can't.

Re: Racism at a gaming company

#324

Post by larrybobsf »

Lukeas14 wrote: post #272
to_jon wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I agree, but some of his content will be a barrier for some people. I'm sure if the tone of the post was milder, most of the comments here would be supportive." -- too typical a response "Peppered throughout the post are cultural signs and signifiers that mark the author as an advocate for a fairly specific set of political and social beliefs." -- completely irrelevant to assessing the facts of the case As a white m…

Regardless of how pissed off he may have been, you don't fight racism with more racism. All that does is exacerbate the situation and hurt your credibility. Calling someone a dumbwhite * might feel good but does nothing for your cause. I've always believed the correct response to racism is to educate. Educate his coworkers on the origin and significance of his necklace and why they shouldn't equate the way he dresses…

The employee in the hostile work environment doesn't say that he said "Dumbwhite" - it's an internal response and doesn't indicate that he's fighting racism with racism. Objectively based on the incident presented, it's a simple statement of fact that the co-worker, is dumb, white and a .

It's not the job of members of minority groups to educate members of majority groups on their culture. People who aren't members of minority cultures should make an effort to self-educate and work against the grain of systemic discrimination.

Re: Racism at a gaming company

#325

Post by makomk »

to_jon wrote: post #232
tptacek wrote: post #137

Decoder ring for nerds who are unable to read past words like "neoliberal colonizer" without racing to the nearest TEXTAREA: * A black coworker is singled out by another (non-black) coworker with "watch out for that guy, he’s trouble, he talks a lot of shit" * Referring to a latino coworker, that same coworker suggests jokes: "Like ‘you’re a mexican whore’ or like ‘your mother’s a Mexican whore?" * The black coworker…

"I agree, but some of his content will be a barrier for some people. I'm sure if the tone of the post was milder, most of the comments here would be supportive." -- too typical a response "Peppered throughout the post are cultural signs and signifiers that mark the author as an advocate for a fairly specific set of political and social beliefs." -- completely irrelevant to assessing the facts of the case As a white m…

I'm too cynical to even manage disappointment, sorry. HN is... well, it's very white. I'm not so much talking about the people who comment here, but for the most part we're discussing companies founded and run by white people, funded by all-white venture capital organisations, with a largely-white employee base. Given that, it's sadly not surprising that many commenters here have really fucked up views on racism because there's no reason why they wouldn't. It's not like there's even any way to tell 99% of the time because the subject hardly ever comes up.

Re: Racism at a gaming company

#326

Post by methoddk »

Apocryphon wrote: post #307
methoddk wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it really does. I fully support a good rant to get something off the chest. The OP is so intensely focused on the race of his attackers, that it is debilitating to the rest of his problem. It makes him look just as bad as his attackers for stooping to the race level.

Except he never used that sort of language towards his coworkers at a professional setting.

So racism is okay as long as it's not in a professional setting?

Re: Racism at a gaming company

#327

Post by russelluresti »

tptacek wrote: post #137

Decoder ring for nerds who are unable to read past words like "neoliberal colonizer" without racing to the nearest TEXTAREA: * A black coworker is singled out by another (non-black) coworker with "watch out for that guy, he’s trouble, he talks a lot of shit" * Referring to a latino coworker, that same coworker suggests jokes: "Like ‘you’re a mexican whore’ or like ‘your mother’s a Mexican whore?" * The black coworker…

I don't believe the author is trying to unfairly tarnish the company he worked for. I do, however, believe that he cannot be an objective witness of events, as his recollection is being strongly influenced by his own personal biases.

You make it seem so nice when you say "the author as an advocate for a fairly specific set of political and social beliefs." But let's be honest, the author is a racist. I get his frustration. But his remarks make it clear he dislikes all white people. The entire "dumbwhite*" stuff, the white supremacy comment, the white men feeling they have authority, etc., are all examples of a negative feelings held against white people simply because they are white. This is racism.

It can't be okay for him to be racist in response to the racism he was experiencing. If we're being asked to not accept one form of racism, then we have to not accept any form of racism.

Re: Racism at a gaming company

#328

Post by thingicantsay »

tptacek wrote: post #291
swang wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * A black coworker is singled out by another (non-black) coworker with "watch out for that guy, he’s trouble, he talks a lot of shit" I think you read that wrong. The black coworker (Mike) said that in reference to Steve not the other way around. Given that, do you think the black coworker should be fired for saying that about Steve? Is it okay for the Mike to say that about Steve but not the other way around, rega…

No, because Steve is surely not one of a tiny minority of white people in the office, nor is there a clear cultural connotation/prejudice of white people being thuggish. For whatever it's worth to you to know this: being considered thuggish, or violent, or hotheaded, or unreasonable is a hot-button issue for working black professionals. I've had neighbors complain to me that they can't disagree or argue with anything…

"There is another co-worker, Mike, who was also hired through the same contractor and is black also. One day this large, lumbering white guy walks by our work station and Mike says “watch out for that guy, he’s trouble, he talks a lot of shit” in a half affectionate half sarcastic tone, like you would about a friend. However, when I see the white guy’s sneering red face looking back at us I knew there was more than ring of truth to that statement…"

It seems "and Mike says" is pretty clear, especially with the followup about it being true, illustrated with incidents involving the guy who "talks a lot of shit".

Re: Racism at a gaming company

#330

Post by jvm »

batgaijin wrote: post #318
JPKab wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brilliant analysis. I am one of the readers who had deep concern for the truthfulness of these observations. If they are true, then he got screwed, royally, and should sue. Except for the pendant comment. That's just a case of taking yourself too seriously. Yet another nail in the coffin of his credibility.

I'm going to try and hijack this a little, just because I'm afraid it won't be seen anywhere else. I don't have a problem with racist/sexist jokes. I do however have a sever issue with healthcare and quality of education being tied to your parents employment and property ownership. I think that is much, much more terrible, as it not only screws over the poor in general, but in particular it really fucks over black pe…

> the most racist things don't target the race of anyone, just their income level.

This is basically a denial that actual racism is a serious problem. I think that's worse than saying the n-word a thousand times.

Even if Obamacare gives every black person free health insurance and also a pony, that's not going to make even a tiny dent in the racism that pervades our society, and saying that it will is just spreading ignorance (imo).

EDIT: Not that I'm saying our country's health care issues aren't totally messed up! Just that that's a different problem.

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