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Israeli-founded app preloaded on Samsung phones is attracting controversy

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Re: Israeli-founded app preloaded on Samsung phones is attracting controversy

#321

Post by Y-bar »

dirck-norman wrote: post #177
Y-bar wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing about this is antisemitic in my book. In fact I would go as far as conflating criticism of Israeli state actions with antisemitism is a sort of antisemitism since it puts both things in the same category equating both with each other (leaving no room for legitimate criticism according to the person equating them). What is antisemitism is people shouting sieg heil outside my house when they read my name on the…

It’s very clear that comment is agent provocateurs trying to sow discord. They have a lot of comments about “the west”.

Very plausible.

Though I am not fully subscribed to the internet school of ”just ignore the trolls”, I think they should all be countered once or twice before being added to a blocklist. That way other people see that those trolls are not welcome and that voices are being raised against them.

Re: Israeli-founded app preloaded on Samsung phones is attracting controversy

#322

Post by summermusic »

t0bia_s wrote: post #306
summermusic wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why custom ROM support is the first question I ask when buying a new Android phone

Rather refurbished, because those are longer on market thus development of custom ROM (like LineageOS) is more likely. And of course you save a lot of money.

Totally, by "new" I mean refurbished or used, but new to me :)

Re: Israeli-founded app preloaded on Samsung phones is attracting controversy

#323

Post by tovej »

dijit wrote: post #320
tovej wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have not said that Israel should not exist, that is your extrapolation. Israel should be held accountable for what it has done, and if it does not further a two state solution, it should be sanctioned by the international community. Current and previous political leaders should be prosecuted for war crimes, and the country should be reformed into a secular democracy. That's it, that's my stance. Now, I don't see an…

Thanks for clarifying. Your point on Israel choosing peace by de-escalating, halting attacks on neighbors, and ending illegal occupations in Palestine, Syria, and Lebanon hits hard. It is a straightforward path to de-escalation that demands action. But as of today, November 18, 2025, the US-brokered ceasefire in Gaza holds broadly, with Israeli forces withdrawn to the “yellow line” and a UN Security Council vote unde…

I appreciate the response, but I see the same pattern repeating. You admit to Israel's actual wrongdoing, but equate the hypothetical wrongdoing of Israel's opponents. There is no equivalence here.

Also, Israel has nuclear weapons and the backing of the US, the EU, and Russia. That is enough to deter attacks. Further security guarantees are redundant, but sure, add them.

I agree that the system should be defeated, but I don't think purely diplomatic solutions will work. At least not ones that assumes Israel acts in good faith. Israel has shown that it will not respect international law, and Israeli opinion on Arabs is not just extreme in a small group of hardliners, it's widespread. In order to make a real change.

I believe Israel has to be brought to heel through boycotts, divestment, and sanctions. That is what tipped the scale with apartheid South Africa, that is most likely the best course of action here as well. Israel does what it wants, it is a self-interested bad faith actor. We need a powerful coalition of international actors to associate a cost with Israel's crimes. That's BDS.

The issue is that Israel has lobbied for anti-BDS laws in the US, making this more difficult. It's an uphill battle, which is also why a balanced discussion about Israeli concerns will not improve the situation. Israel is fighting a propaganda war. If we start debating things other than how to reform Israel, Israel wins. It can delay, confuse, and run interference against any actual discussion about the real problem: the ethnonationalist founding principles of Israel, the apartheid, the genocide, the imperial ambitions of Israel, the blatant disregard for international law and treaties.

I appreciate the discussion so far, but I think I've said everything I want to say. If you have any final thoughts, I'd be glad to hear them.

Re: Israeli-founded app preloaded on Samsung phones is attracting controversy

#324

Post by zapataband2 »

avh02 wrote: post #114
zapataband2 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Downvoting facts? You might not be thinking about this topic rationally.

well, your facts are wrong, because there were in fact explosives planted in there [1] 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Lebanon_electronic_device...

[dead]

Re: Israeli-founded app preloaded on Samsung phones is attracting controversy

#325

Post by zapataband2 »

vladgur wrote: post #63
zapataband2 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a pretty well established phenomenon and he cites israeli leaders. no need for ad-hominem attacks. What's your argument for allowing spyware?

he cited a single Israeli private citizen. not Israeli leaders. The fact that a data-harvesting bloatware is installed on common handsets should be controversial enough. Both the title of this post and the link try to add "Israel is baaaad" angle as just because a company was founded in Israel. Israel is a middle-eastern tech hub that produces a lot of tech companies and innovations. Its just a numbers game that some…

[dead]

Re: Israeli-founded app preloaded on Samsung phones is attracting controversy

#326

Post by dijit »

tovej wrote: post #323
dijit wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for clarifying. Your point on Israel choosing peace by de-escalating, halting attacks on neighbors, and ending illegal occupations in Palestine, Syria, and Lebanon hits hard. It is a straightforward path to de-escalation that demands action. But as of today, November 18, 2025, the US-brokered ceasefire in Gaza holds broadly, with Israeli forces withdrawn to the “yellow line” and a UN Security Council vote unde…

I appreciate the response, but I see the same pattern repeating. You admit to Israel's actual wrongdoing, but equate the hypothetical wrongdoing of Israel's opponents. There is no equivalence here. Also, Israel has nuclear weapons and the backing of the US, the EU, and Russia. That is enough to deter attacks. Further security guarantees are redundant, but sure, add them. I agree that the system should be defeated, bu…

I get your frustration with patterns in these debates, and you’re right that Israel’s documented crimes: apartheid policies, genocidal violence in Gaza, and blatant violations of international law… stand alone in scale and impunity.

No hypotheticals from opponents come close, and that’s not up for debate. The power asymmetry is massive: nukes, US and EU support (Russia’s more pro-Palestinian, actually, with recent UN pushes for Palestinian statehood), and anti-BDS lobbying make good-faith diplomacy a tough sell without real pressure.

But let’s cut to the core: wrongdoing isn’t one-sided. You have to acknowledge that on the Palestinian side too: rocket attacks on civilians, suicide bombings, and October 7’s civilian massacres are wrongs that can’t be waved away as pure resistance. Both sides have blood on their hands, and denying that keeps the cycle spinning. In the end, it’s all just people: ordinary Palestinians crushed under occupation, and ordinary Israelis living in fear, both wanting safety for their families.

Put yourself in those Israeli shoes; surrounded by states and groups that have historically vowed your destruction, with no other viable homeland to flee to after centuries of global expulsions. You’d feel threatened too, right? That doesn’t excuse Israel’s aggressions, but it explains why zero empathy guarantees endless war.

BDS is a sharp tool; it broke South Africa’s back through isolation, and it could here: boycotts draining the economy, divestment from occupation profiteers, sanctions on war criminals. Ramp it up, build the coalition, associate real costs with the ethnonationalism and imperialism. But to make it stick, humanise the people enough to split internal hardliners from the weary majority open to secular change. Otherwise, you’re just fueling the propaganda you call out. Good talk.. it’s pushed me to think harder.

Re: Israeli-founded app preloaded on Samsung phones is attracting controversy

#327

Post by ebbi »

sophrosyne42 wrote: post #293
ebbi wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any evidence of that, that is not Israeli 'evidence'?

People from Hamas say they do it. https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/videos/international/ham...

So one article about a tunnel shaft is what you have come up with?

Nice work.

Re: Israeli-founded app preloaded on Samsung phones is attracting controversy

#328

Post by ebbi »

sophrosyne42 wrote: post #311
baked_beanz wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're claiming that every building destroyed by an Israeli airstrike was booby trapped by Hamas...? Even if that were the case, destroying those buildings with civilians inside is still a war crime

I'm claiming there is a reason that Israel destroys buildings you neglect to mention. Recognizing that reason strongly undermines your assertion of systematic targetting. There is a fog of war, and war is messy, so a charitable outlook should exclude blase confidence about the matter. You're mixing two different things with the civilians in buildings. The mass building destruction we see is done on buildings after ev…

I love how confidently you reply in a way that makes you think Israel just has a right to do it. Like they have a right to just level buildings because they think it's booby trapped.

You're someone that has deepthroated the Israeli narrative, with no critical thinking whatsoever. I hope, for your own sake, you start to see more of the reality, as defending a violent regime like this can have an impact on ones soul, which will affect - if not already - other areas of your life.

Re: Israeli-founded app preloaded on Samsung phones is attracting controversy

#329

Post by sophrosyne42 »

ebbi wrote: post #327
sophrosyne42 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People from Hamas say they do it. https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/videos/international/ham...

So one article about a tunnel shaft is what you have come up with? Nice work.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect Hamas would do the same with buildings as tunnels.

Re: Israeli-founded app preloaded on Samsung phones is attracting controversy

#330

Post by sophrosyne42 »

ebbi wrote: post #328
sophrosyne42 wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm claiming there is a reason that Israel destroys buildings you neglect to mention. Recognizing that reason strongly undermines your assertion of systematic targetting. There is a fog of war, and war is messy, so a charitable outlook should exclude blase confidence about the matter. You're mixing two different things with the civilians in buildings. The mass building destruction we see is done on buildings after ev…

I love how confidently you reply in a way that makes you think Israel just has a right to do it. Like they have a right to just level buildings because they think it's booby trapped. You're someone that has deepthroated the Israeli narrative, with no critical thinking whatsoever. I hope, for your own sake, you start to see more of the reality, as defending a violent regime like this can have an impact on ones soul, w…

Did I say Israel has a right to do all these things? No, I did not. I described the situation and their reasoning. Now Israel does have a right to defend itself. Hamas, the government of Gaza, forfeited their relatively peaceful situation when they openly attacked Israel. That doesn't mean everything Israel does is unquestionable. There is plenty open to criticism. There is also a fog of war, and much is unknown now that will be revealed as time goes on. But that also doesn't mean that we should dismiss everythjng Israel says just because they say it. A little more nuamce and curiosity is the most ethical approach to this inherently morally bankrupt conflict.

The mere existence of a state per se is violent, and given that both Israel and Palestine insists on having mutually incompatible states over the same territory, there is no other option but endless bloodshed until both sides commit to a conciliatory settlement. Until that day, a day which may never come, since everyone is hellbent on egging their respective favored side on, things will simply continue as is until one or both sides are destroyed. Since Israel unquestionably has more power, it will likely survive. There is no morally unquestionable option, but I think anyone who has a stake in the livelihood of Palestinians would be interested in stopping the conflict as soon as possible and making a settlement, even an imperfect one. In such a quandry, the only ethical option is to remain open and curious, be willing to look at facts and evaluate claims instead of jumping to conclusions, and refrain from asserting an uncertain narrative as fact when there are competing narratives and counterexamples.

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