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Android developer verification: Early access starts

android-developers.googleblog.com

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Re: Android developer verification: Early access starts

#321

Post by stackghost »

vrighter wrote: post #230
miki123211 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like a world where I have the final say over whether I should have a final say. One way to achieve this is to only allow sideloading in "developer mode", which could only be activated from the setup / onboarding screen. That way, power users who know they'll want to sideload could still sideload. The rest could enjoy the benefits of an ecosystem where somebody more competent than their 80-year-old nontechnica…

You can sideload, I mean INSTALL, software on any linux desktop. Yet there are still tons of people saying that desktop linux has gotten good enough for most of everyone's grandma to daily-drive.

When everyone's Grandma is running Linux then the Indian scammers will know how to trick Grandma into thinking dmesg spam is "a virus" and just install this totally-not-malware, just like they do with the windows event viewer.

In other words, it's not any quality of Linux other than how niche it is.

Re: Android developer verification: Early access starts

#323

Post by Frieren »

svat wrote: post #7

From the very first announcement of this, Google has hinted that they were doing this under pressure from the governments in a few countries. (I don't remember the URL of the first announcement, but https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2025/08/elevating-... is from 2025-August-25 and mentions “These requirements go into effect in Brazil, Indonesia, Singapore, and Thailand”.) The “Why verification is important” s…

> there cannot exist an easy way for a typical non-technical user to install “unverified apps” (whatever that means), because the governments of countries where such scams are widespread will hold Google responsible.

But it is perfectly fine to sell crypto and other complex financial assets to kids and other people that do not know they are from apps in the Play store.

If "safety" takes control from you then it is implemented. If real safety puts profits in danger then it is fight against. Quite a dystopia.

Re: Android developer verification: Early access starts

#324

Post by consp »

hasperdi wrote: post #292
andyjohnson0 wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They will just add a flag in the SafetyNet service to let other apps know if non "verified" apps have been installed. Sincere question: do you have any evidence for this? I don't see anything in the article that backs it up, and your asserion seems to be at odds with the description of a side load capability for "risk tolerant" users. What you describe would certainly break much of the usefulness of side loading fo…

It a projection of what they could do. ie. logical step The whole SafetyNet and "secure chain" things are PITA, eg. ChatGPT app wouldn't work if the phone bootloader isn't signed by Google. Lots of banking app wouldn't work, HSBC banking app for instance wouldn't allow login if Android developer mode is enabled.

Some apps do this because of some minor audit crap with relation to screenshots (the devmode part) afaik. Others just always blank the screen image and tell the auditor to [insert crude metaphor].

Same none sense with root enabled. You must have a check, doesn't specify which one and as long as you can show it works once you are fine.

Re: Android developer verification: Early access starts

#325

Post by m4rtink »

wkat4242 wrote: post #151
svat wrote: post #7

From the very first announcement of this, Google has hinted that they were doing this under pressure from the governments in a few countries. (I don't remember the URL of the first announcement, but https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2025/08/elevating-... is from 2025-August-25 and mentions “These requirements go into effect in Brazil, Indonesia, Singapore, and Thailand”.) The “Why verification is important” s…

Then let them do that for those countries. Not for everyone. I'm not in any of those autocratic countries. Or offer an opt out in the countries where this isn't a thing. Using adb is not really great for doing updates. And also, I'm the owner of my device. Not my country.

Once they do it in one country, there will be much more pressure and incentives to do it everywhere.

Re: Android developer verification: Early access starts

#326

Post by sschueller »

concinds wrote: post #273
rbits wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think that will happen?

Paranoia.

The current US administration is not acting with logic nor reason. Switzerland is currently dealing with a 39% tariff for no reason. We are the 7th largest investor[1] in the United States with thousands of jobs and we are the worlds 3rd largest holder of US dollars[2].

[1] https://globalbusiness.org/foreign-direct-investment-in-the-...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign_e...

Re: Android developer verification: Early access starts

#327

Post by Yokolos »

notepad0x90 wrote: post #268
lern_too_spel wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google can then require highlighting things like number of downloads and developer reputation by 3rd party appstores F-droid doesn't want to track number of installs because that is an invasion of privacy. > require developer verification, but also allow third party appstores like f-droid that don't require verification Now you've moved the problem from Google gatekeeping apps to Google gatekeeping app stores. We d…

Then i guess you can't publish apps? One of those issues where i should be "writing to my congressman" or whatever I guess. the problem is real and people like you are being obtuse, unwilling to find a solution or a compromise. Something as simple as number of installs is an invasion of privacy? how? it's a number, you increment a counter when someone hits download, that's it. Yeah, if google gets to have rules over…

How about the harms of fascist authoritarian governments that will use this functionality to ban any apps they don't like? Why do you people only care about malware and not essential fundamental freedoms that affect us every fucking day?

Re: Android developer verification: Early access starts

#328

Post by peterdn »

atoav wrote: post #270
ramshanker wrote: post #233

Ancedotal: I used to believe in this "freedom to install". Than my Father got scammed (~$1000) in the name of Electricity recharge. The APK was sent over WhatsApp. Now I am not so sure how to implement this freedom. At the bare minimum there has to be big red warnings. One thing which can immediately improve security is forbidding SMS read access forever. Just like Apple does. No App should be able to read SMS.

So your father: 1. Downloaded a weird file from a stranger 2. Went to the settings and about pyone sceeen 3. Tapped the thing 5 times to activate developer mode 4. Activated installing from third party sources despite the warning there 5. Installed the APK May I suggest the problem is not that this is possible, but a lack of education? If your father is the type that would jump into the bathtub with a toaster because…

Yes, education around these scams and their methods could be better, but there is also a reason they target the elderly and vulnerable. Unless something else terrible happens, I assume I will count in one or both of those groups eventually. I feel like when I get there, I would appreciate empathy rather than disdain, if I were ever taken advantage of.

Regardless, you do not actually need to enable developer settings to install APKs from unknown sources (at least, not on my Samsung). When you open an APK from within another app (e.g. Google Drive or WhatsApp), Android "helpfully" forwards you straight to the relevant security settings page, allowing you to immediately toggle the "Install unknown apps" permission for that specific app. It's a streamlined flow, only a couple of taps, no scrolling/searching/reading, therefore likely easy to coach a victim into performing.

So, I expect what the Android team is alluding to in the original post is to enable additional friction like you describe.

Re: Android developer verification: Early access starts

#329

Post by atoav »

computerdork wrote: post #291
atoav wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your father: 1. Downloaded a weird file from a stranger 2. Went to the settings and about pyone sceeen 3. Tapped the thing 5 times to activate developer mode 4. Activated installing from third party sources despite the warning there 5. Installed the APK May I suggest the problem is not that this is possible, but a lack of education? If your father is the type that would jump into the bathtub with a toaster because…

eh, think this is a bit much to ask. Are we going to educate a majority of the baby boomers who just never got a feel for how technology works? Yeah, my Dad also just got scammed by a phishing scheme on his PC (and if a scammer had walked him through how to install an apk on his phone, he'd probably do that too). In my humble opinion, in the design of a UI or any type of system, kind of have to go where the users tak…

Should we ban refilling your own cars oil because some idots keep filling coolant into it?

I worked in IT support and I am deeply aware with the issues people are having. Some issues are systemic (aka bad design) and those should be fixed. Other issues are human.

It may not seem like it, but I have the patience of an angel, because I remember when computers where new to me. I like people to understand. Understanding is power. But when I did work in IT support I saw some things. Grown adults repeatedly clicking away error messages without reading them while I stand and watch over their shoulder. When I ask them what their error message read they say they don't know. Then we read it together and they go: "Ohhh".

Yeah. Ohhh. You have a weird error that prevents you from working and there is a red error message and you don't bother to read it. That isn't a technological problem that is a educational problem.

I stand by what I said, we cannot dumb down our system because people don't care, are lazy and act dumb. Because that leads to a cycle where it gets ever dumber and lazier all while making life hell for people who are not dumb or lazy.

If you want to use a car you need to know certain things. Same is true for digital systems, the internet, a smartphone, a toaster, a hair dryer, a knife, a simple plastic bag, etc. The solution is education, not dumbing down the world.

Re: Android developer verification: Early access starts

#330

Post by xzjis »

svat wrote: post #7

From the very first announcement of this, Google has hinted that they were doing this under pressure from the governments in a few countries. (I don't remember the URL of the first announcement, but https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2025/08/elevating-... is from 2025-August-25 and mentions “These requirements go into effect in Brazil, Indonesia, Singapore, and Thailand”.) The “Why verification is important” s…

Why can't they just put up a big, red warning: "Never enable software installation if someone asks you to (over the phone or via message). If you're unsure, check out this article on scams."?
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