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I took all my projects off the cloud, saving thousands of dollars

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Re: I took all my projects off the cloud, saving thousands of dollars

#321

Post by bsenftner »

Blahagun wrote: post #304
piokoch wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is all true. But... But if you manage your own server, as the author advice, you need to figure out a lot of stuff and remember about a lot of stuff. Are ulimits set correctly? Shall I turn on syn cookies or turn them off because of performance? What are the things I should know but I don't and Chat GPT has not told me them, as this is more than some intro tutorial on how to run VPS on DO, so it was never indexe…

Setting up the email server is the only thing I couldn't do with my own home hosted setup because you're at the mercy of your internet provider to give you the PTR record in their network, and lately many providers outright refuse to do it for "your own and their own safety" reasons. This thing alone could be the difference between deciding to host yourself or use a cloud service.

Just use the Postmark web service API, cheap, reliable, and far more if one really wants to lean into email with their online service. https://postmarkapp.com/email-api

Re: I took all my projects off the cloud, saving thousands of dollars

#324

Post by pnutjam »

anktor wrote: post #280
pnutjam wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most consistent misunderstanding I see about the cloud, is disk I/O. Nobody understands how slow your standard cloud disk is under load. They see good performance and assume that will always be the case. They don't realize that most cloud disks use a form of token tracking where they build up I/O over time and if you have bursts or sustained high I/O load you will very quickly notice that your disk speeds are gar…

What could I read to inform myself better on this topic? It is true I had not seen this angle before

This looks pretty informative. The terminology can be hard to follow. https://medium.com/@bounouh.fedi/understanding-iops-in-aws-w...

I/O is hard to benchmark so it's often ignored since you can just scale up your disks. It's a common gotcha in the cloud. It's not a show stopper, but it blows up the savings you might be expecting.

Re: I took all my projects off the cloud, saving thousands of dollars

#325

Post by pnutjam »

maccard wrote: post #289
pnutjam wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most consistent misunderstanding I see about the cloud, is disk I/O. Nobody understands how slow your standard cloud disk is under load. They see good performance and assume that will always be the case. They don't realize that most cloud disks use a form of token tracking where they build up I/O over time and if you have bursts or sustained high I/O load you will very quickly notice that your disk speeds are gar…

Even without that, you are still at the heart of it accessing over a SAN like interface with some sort of local cache. Getting an actual local drive on AWS the performance is night and day

Sure, you can work around it; but it blows up the savings alot of people expect when they don't include this in their math.

Also, SAN is often faster then local disk if you have a local SAN.

Re: I took all my projects off the cloud, saving thousands of dollars

#326

Post by suriya-ganesh »

nubinetwork wrote: post #262
JSR_FDED wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This needs some context. I can think of several cases where this wouldn’t be the be right.

Big box VM host running several VMs, hardware starts to fail, brings the entire setup to its knees. That wouldn't happen if you had each VM running on its own physical hardware, unless the UPS/PDU died...

VMs are able to live migrate these days. Single VM has a lot more uptime guarantee than a distributed system with multiple over the network communication layers.

Re: I took all my projects off the cloud, saving thousands of dollars

#327

Post by amtamt »

matt-p wrote: post #295
fhd2 wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My pet peeves are: 1. For small stuff, AWS et al aren't that much more expensive than Hetzner, mostly in the same ballpark, maybe 2x in my experience. 2. What's easy to underestimate for _developers_ is that your self hosted setup is most likely harder to get third party support for. If you run software on AWS, you can hire someone familiar with AWS and as long as you're not doing anything too weird, they'll figure i…

One way of solving for this is to just use K3s or even just plain docker. It is then just kuberneters/containers and you can hire alot of people who understand that.

Absolutely recommend k3s. Start with a single node and keep on scaling as customer base increases.

Re: I took all my projects off the cloud, saving thousands of dollars

#328

Post by 8fingerlouie »

sundache wrote: post #302
8fingerlouie wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a reason i specifically mentioned finance, where the end and start of a month is a lot more busy than the middle of the month, as in factor 10+. People receive paychecks, pay bills, buy stuff, with holidays (christmas, x-mas, etc) being even busier. Load does not even out, and when you have 3 million customers or more, the load is not really insignificant. Nor can you just delay it, or rely on eventual consis…

But most hosting providers allow you to just rent a server for a day or a few hours, so it's not really an argument why you have to use the cloud.

The actual hardware (or virtual these days) is not the problem, but getting the 5000-10000 services properly connected with auditing, credentials and more is more trouble than most people expect.

Finance is a heavily regulated industry, so there’s a LOT of compliance that needs to happen, like segregation of duty, traceability, accountability, and other ilities.

Yes, it would probably cost less to run on Hetzner (provided their ISO audits are approved by financial authorities), but dynamically spinning up and down servers would cost more.

You also need fallback plans (regulated industry, critical infrastructure, etc).

It has literally taken years to get AWS and Azure approved in EU.

Re: I took all my projects off the cloud, saving thousands of dollars

#329

Post by nubinetwork »

suriya-ganesh wrote: post #326
nubinetwork wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big box VM host running several VMs, hardware starts to fail, brings the entire setup to its knees. That wouldn't happen if you had each VM running on its own physical hardware, unless the UPS/PDU died...

VMs are able to live migrate these days. Single VM has a lot more uptime guarantee than a distributed system with multiple over the network communication layers.

Not if you only have one VM host ;)

Re: I took all my projects off the cloud, saving thousands of dollars

#330

Post by Blahagun »

bsenftner wrote: post #321
Blahagun wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Setting up the email server is the only thing I couldn't do with my own home hosted setup because you're at the mercy of your internet provider to give you the PTR record in their network, and lately many providers outright refuse to do it for "your own and their own safety" reasons. This thing alone could be the difference between deciding to host yourself or use a cloud service.

Just use the Postmark web service API, cheap, reliable, and far more if one really wants to lean into email with their online service. https://postmarkapp.com/email-api

I am aware of the tons of subscription based email services but that is not the point here. What good is self hosting when you still need to rely on some external paid service for a trivial thing like an email server? The costs add up.
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