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Armed police swarm student after AI mistakes bag of Doritos for a weapon

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Re: Armed police swarm student after AI mistakes bag of Doritos for a weapon

#321

Post by FireBeyond »

mrguyorama wrote: post #145
some_random wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of the security theater is to assuage the 95th percentile scared-of-everything crowd, they're the same people who want no guns signs in public parks.

No. Right from the beginning it was a handout to groups who built the scanning equipment, who were basically personal friends with people in the admin. We paid absurd prices for niche equipment, a lot of which was never even deployed and just sat in storage. Several of the hijackers were literally given extended searches by security that day. A reminder that what actually stopped hijackings (like, nearly entirely) wa…

> regularly fail their internal audits

Not even. It's that they rarely pass the audits. Many of the audits have a 90-95% "missed suspect item/s" result.

Re: Armed police swarm student after AI mistakes bag of Doritos for a weapon

#322

Post by zdragnar »

wkat4242 wrote: post #320
parineum wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They actually don't have all the rights of a person and they do have those same responsibilities. If this company was a sole proprietorship, the only recourse this kid would have is to sue the owner, up to bankruptcy. Since it's a corporation, his recourse is to sue the company, up to bankruptcy. As for corporations having rights, I can explain it further if necessary but the key understanding is that the singular of…

You can't put a corporation in prison. But a person you can. This is one of the big problems. The people making the decisions at corporations are shielded from personal consequences by the corporation. A corporation can be shut down but it rarely happens. Even when Boeing knowingly caused the deaths of hundreds (especially the second crash was entirely preventable if they would have been honest after the first one),…

You need a judge and jury for prison sentences for criminal convictions.

If the government decides to prosecute the matter as a civil infraction, or doesn't even bother prosecuting but just has an executive agency hand out a fine, that's not a matter of the corporation shielding people, that's a matter of the government failing to prosecute or secure a conviction.

Re: Armed police swarm student after AI mistakes bag of Doritos for a weapon

#323

Post by evanelias »

boneitis wrote: post #274
evanelias wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That certainly sounds bad, but it's all relative; keep in mind this school is in Baltimore County , which is distinct from the City of Baltimore and has a much different crime profile. This school is in the exact same town as Eastern Tech, literally the top high school in Maryland.

Hi, I'm not following the point being made. I skimmed through all the articles linked in GP and finding them pretty relevant to whatever decision might have been made to utilize the AI system (not at all to comment on how badly the bad tip was acted on). Hailing from and still living in N. California, you could tell me that this school is located in Beverly Hills or Melrose Place, and it would still strike me as a pi…

For context, Baltimore (City) is one of the most dangerous large cities in the US. Between the article calling the school "Kenwood High School in Baltimore" and the GP's crime links, a casual reader could mistakenly picture a dangerous inner-city school. But in reality it's located in a low-rise suburb in the County. Granted, it's an inner-ring blue collar suburb, but it's still a night-and-day difference from the worst neighborhoods in the city. And the schools in those bad neighborhoods tend to have far worse crimes than what was listed above.

So my point was that while the list of incidents is definitely not great, it's still way less severe than many inner-city schools in Baltimore. And honestly these same types of incidents happen at many "safe" large suburban high schools in "nice" areas throughout the US... generally less often than at this particular school, but not an order-of-magnitude difference.

Basically, I'm saying that GP's assertion of it being a "dangerous school" is entirely relative to what you're comparing to. There are much worse schools in that metro area.

Re: Armed police swarm student after AI mistakes bag of Doritos for a weapon

#324

Post by neuralRiot »

akoboldfrying wrote: post #253
neuralRiot wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I’ve said this too many times already but the core problem here and with the “AI craze” is that nobody realy wants to solve problems, what they want is a marketable product and AI seems to be the magic wrench that fits in all the nuts and since most of the people doesn’t really knows how it works and what are its limitations the happily buy the “magic dust”.

> nobody realy wants to solve problems, what they want is a marketable product I agree, but this isn't specific to AI -- it's what makes capitalism work to the extent that it does. Nobody wants to clean a toilet or harvest wheat or do most things that society needs someone to do, they want to get paid.

Absolutely, but I don’t believe the responsibility falls in the hands of those looking to make a profit but rather into of those in charge of regulating how those profits should be made, after all thieves want to make a profit too but we don’t allow them to, at least not if it’s not a couple of millions.

Re: Armed police swarm student after AI mistakes bag of Doritos for a weapon

#325

Post by litlTucker »

A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 wrote: post #303
tacticus wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But in this case both are bad. If it was a false negative students might need therapy for a more tragic reason. Given the probability of police officers in the USA taking any action as hostile and then ending up shooting him a false positive here is the same as swatting someone. The system here sent the police off to kill someone.

Yep. Think of it as the new exciting version of swatting. Naturally, one will still need to figure out common ways to force a specific misattribution, but, sadly, I think there will be people working on it ( if there aren't already ).

[dead]

Re: Armed police swarm student after AI mistakes bag of Doritos for a weapon

#327

Post by CGamesPlay »

nomel wrote: post #306
CGamesPlay wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Human verified the video -> human was the decision-maker. No human verified the video -> Human who gave a blank check to the AI system was the decision-maker. It's not really about the quality of journalism, here.

Please provide the quote from the story that says which of those is the case.

We're talking about who should be charged with a crime. I sincerely hope we're going to do more discovery than "ask Dexerto to summarize what WBAL-TV 11 News said".

Re: Armed police swarm student after AI mistakes bag of Doritos for a weapon

#328

Post by mindslight »

parineum wrote: post #293
perplex3d wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, corporations have all of the rights of a person, abilities beyond a person, yet few of the responsibilities of a person.

They actually don't have all the rights of a person and they do have those same responsibilities. If this company was a sole proprietorship, the only recourse this kid would have is to sue the owner, up to bankruptcy. Since it's a corporation, his recourse is to sue the company, up to bankruptcy. As for corporations having rights, I can explain it further if necessary but the key understanding is that the singular of…

If the company is a sole proprietorship, you can sue the person who controls it up to bankruptcy, which will affect their personal life significantly. If the company is a corporation/LLC, you can sue the corporate entity up to the bankruptcy of the corporate entity, while the people controlling the company remain unaffected.

This gets even more perverse. If you're an individual you actually can't just set up an LLC to limit your own liability. There's no manner for an individual to say "I'm putting on a hat and acting solely as the LLC" - rather as the owner you need to find and employ enough judgement-proof patsies that the whole thing becomes a "group project" and you can say you personally weren't aware of whatever problem gave rise to liability. In other words, the very design of corporations/LLCs encourages avoiding responsibility.

You're correct with the nitpick about the Supreme Council's justification, but that justification is still poor reasoning. Corporations are government-created liability shields. How they can direct their employees should be limited, to avoid trampling on those individuals' own natural rights. A person or group of people who want to exercise their personal natural rights through hired employees can always forgo the government-created liability shield and go sole proprietorship / gen partnership.

Re: Armed police swarm student after AI mistakes bag of Doritos for a weapon

#329

Post by evanelias »

ggreer wrote: post #291
aidenn0 wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds to me like it's pretty close to the middle of the curve a large High School in the US.

I doubt that. I moved around a lot as a kid, so I went to at least eight different public schools from Alabama to Washington. One school was structurally condemned while I attended it. Some places had bullying, and sometimes a couple of people fought, but never with weapons, and there was never an injury severe enough to require medical attention. I also know several high school teachers and the worst things they've…

> I think this sort of violence is limited to a small fraction of schools/districts.

No, definitely not. I went to a decently-well-ranked suburban school district, and still witnessed violent incidents... no weapon used, but still multiple cases where the victim got a concussion. And there were arrests, a gun found in a kid's locker, etc. This stuff was unfortunately relatively normal, at least in the 90s. Not quite as often as at the school in the article, but still.

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