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Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant

nationalpost.com

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Re: Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant

#321

Post by einarfd »

Boogie_Man wrote: post #311
MagicMoonlight wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’re definitely in the pre-war era. It’s like when Britain was trying to negotiate with Hitler while rearming in the background. China is going to attack pearl harbour in the hopes that a sudden unexpected attack will cripple the pacific fleet and knock America out of the war. It won’t work, we’ll go through hell again. But every time these places think it will work, and they don’t factor in the fact that they are c…

This might be the wrong place to ask these questions, but this comment caused me to think about the situation. Russia and/or Putin has been sold to me as "crazy" since the 90s. I don't really believe that, and presume it's because it's an explanation for their behavior which doesn't require America to consider how seriously we've been dicking over Russia. This is not to say Russia wouldn't dick us if they could (they…

The current Russian regime believes in sphere of influence, and they view Ukraine, the baltics, at least some parts eastern europe, and probably more as a natural part of their sphere of influence.

This crashes with the western view where countries and populations have a right to self determination. Some of the countries that Russia want to fall under their sphere are also members of the EU, which make this even more problematic. Seen from Moscow, EU and western countries have encroached on their turf and this is a problem for them. Seen from the western side, this is wrong, and if Russia is such a bad neighbor that its neighbor join defensive alliances to get out from under their thumb, that is their own fault, and the way the world is supposed to work.

Russia also has a geographic vulnerability where there is no geographic chokepoints from at least Poland and straight to Moscow, which historically has given Russia problems.

Give this, there is actually a rational for what Russia is doing, personally I think it is a bad rational, but there is logic in the madness, even if from my perspective, it is based on a deeply wrong world view.

Re: Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant

#322

Post by boringg »

34679 wrote: post #308
MagicMoonlight wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’re definitely in the pre-war era. It’s like when Britain was trying to negotiate with Hitler while rearming in the background. China is going to attack pearl harbour in the hopes that a sudden unexpected attack will cripple the pacific fleet and knock America out of the war. It won’t work, we’ll go through hell again. But every time these places think it will work, and they don’t factor in the fact that they are c…

>they are completely reliant on foreign trade for their economy. If China cut trade ties with the US, which country do you think will still be able to produce everything it needs? People like to think of China as just a source of cheap consumer goods, but we are much more reliant on them than that. Every power plant has Chinese components that keep it functioning. Every farm, automobile, communication network, aircra…

It goes both ways.

Re: Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant

#323

Post by boringg »

thinkingtoilet wrote: post #290
padjo wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not nearly afraid enough.

I have to laugh. Why do you think this? They own everything. They have successfully taken over both parties for them to steam roll literally everything they want. Taxes have never been lower. The wealth gap never higher. The only people trying to stand up to them are progressives but even the Democratic party works against them. They've won. They have nothing to be afraid of.

Which country are you talking about? Theres no democratic party in Canada and the progressives in Canada are completely feckless due to their abysmal historical performance when in power in the provinces.

Re: Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant

#324

Post by bluGill »

Boogie_Man wrote: post #311
MagicMoonlight wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’re definitely in the pre-war era. It’s like when Britain was trying to negotiate with Hitler while rearming in the background. China is going to attack pearl harbour in the hopes that a sudden unexpected attack will cripple the pacific fleet and knock America out of the war. It won’t work, we’ll go through hell again. But every time these places think it will work, and they don’t factor in the fact that they are c…

This might be the wrong place to ask these questions, but this comment caused me to think about the situation. Russia and/or Putin has been sold to me as "crazy" since the 90s. I don't really believe that, and presume it's because it's an explanation for their behavior which doesn't require America to consider how seriously we've been dicking over Russia. This is not to say Russia wouldn't dick us if they could (they…

Putin's goals are not peace, they are restoring the soviet union (his vision of what it should have been, not what it ever was). All call that crazy. That should not be confused with insane: he has a sharp mind, just he has turned it to things that I consider crazy to consider.

Ukraine matters to NATO because they are turning more and more to our classical liberal values of freedom, and that is something NATO wants to encourage in general. (in general - note that Turkey and Hungary are part of NATO that don't want to encourage this, and there are other countries not sure)

We can only guess why Russia/Putin thinks Ukraine is existential to Russia. Our best guess is because they were a historical part of the Soviet Union that they are trying to restore. Putin cannot fulfill his vision without Ukraine. NATO countries like Latvia were also part of the Soviet union and so we expect they are next.

Re: Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant

#325

Post by glitchc »

adrian_b wrote: post #273
hunterpayne wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So sure, if you ignore all Communist countries and lump in Islamist countries with the western 'right' you can make that argument. Back on earth, its always the left that is motivated by ideology. The only right wing governments who turn authoritarian do so for money and power, not ideology. The ideology of the right (in the west) is specifically designed to be against that. That's why the biggest body counts always…

I do not think that it makes sense to call the Communist governments as "left". Almost all Communist governments did not obtain the power by a political fight between "right" and "left", but by being installed in power by foreign invaders (in most cases by Russians). Typically the first action of all Communist governments has been to imprison and/or kill all "leftist" politicians of that country, this having a higher…

> I do not think that it makes sense to call the Communist governments as "left".

Oh? What an interesting attempt at a retcon. So folks on the left are socialists, but not as socialist as communists? Poor Marx must be spinning in his grave.

> Almost all Communist governments did not obtain the power by a political fight between "right" and "left", but by being installed in power by foreign invaders (in most cases by Russians).

Except for Russia and China, the original communist countries, of course. Even India was influenced, although to a lesser degree. But don't let facts get in the way of your argument.

Re: Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant

#326

Post by [deleted] »

mitthrowaway2 wrote: post #147
gpm wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At best you could compare them to fox news, but they don't compare favourably even to that. They are admittedly maybe not quite as bad as Breitbart but it's close enough in my opinion.

NP definitely does not approach objectivity or hide its editorial partisanship, but they're very far from Fox News.

[deleted]

Re: Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant

#327

Post by sethammons »

tim333 wrote: post #271
dmitrygr wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't figure out what the real motivation for this is. Can't you?

I can't either. Seems dumb. "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity". What do you think the motivation is?

Power. The ability to silence and isolate your enemies from within.

Re: Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant

#328

Post by isaacremuant »

rock_artist wrote: post #53

We live in very confusing times. Democratic countries start acting more and more like big brother. Its also concerning to read the quote: “necessary to do so to secure the Canadian telecommunications system against any threat, including that of interference, manipulation, disruption or degradation.” Where Canadian telecommunication is almost a duopoly and had major outage a few years ago without any claims of bad act…

It's not confusing at all. It's the same trend we've been having for ages and that most people have cheered for because they were usually dunking on their political rivals, the "evil enemy (TM)" or "protecting the children/against covid misinformation", etc.

Only when people start recognising that was all bullshit and demand their freedom can we collectively fight back. Resist your impulses to go with the propaganda and call every dissenter a conspiracy theorist.

Recognize authoritarianism is extremely common and it happens in "democratic" countries which are absolutely shielded in bureocracy.

Re: Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant

#329

Post by parliament32 »

I really don't get how this is supposed to be effective at all. Apart from the obvious examples of free wifi at Starbucks, the library, etc., I can walk down to 7-eleven and buy a prepaid SIM with a data plan with cash, today, no ID required. Not to mention, if I'm a master hacker who is a "threat", surely I can spend a few hours cracking my neighbour's WPA2 key.

I suspect they want this purely as a punitive measure for people they don't like, kinda like the time they froze the bank accounts of vaccine passport protestors (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60383385).

Re: Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant

#330

Post by isaacremuant »

zarzavat wrote: post #247

Compared to the 90s, all the systems that existed to live without the internet have disappeared or been degraded. There are no more paper phone books or phone booths for example. If I want to apply for various government services I have to do so online, in the 90s there were paper forms. I don't know how digitised the Canadian government is, but banning people from accessing the government is cruel.

You will not engage in wrongthink or else.

You will not dissent effectively against the government.

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