Earlier quoted context omitted.
Russia gas is suicide. Especially considering that Russia plans war against the Europe and even already started act on those plans.
This is satire... right?
They're really pushing it hard in the media here
Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels
321–330 of 651 posts
Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels
#322> [The solar panels are] connected to a microinverter plugged into a wall outlet and feed electricity directly into his home.
Is this safe, feeding electricity into the local cabling? I recall a discussion on HN a few days ago with someone running a parallel cabling setup and there was _strong_ criticism over electrical safety; that was an entirely parallel set of cabling.
How would this work re phase, load, how it balances re the mains input, if it goes through the fuse box, etc?
Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels
#323Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I don’t understand this sentiment at all. They didn’t sacrifice their balcony, and this is electricity that the central utility organizations couldn’t generate. Many parts of the world don’t even allow this kind of solar panel to be used by individuals, so its legality is actually a policy success. Completely disagree. This is definitely electricity that central utility organizations could generate. A central metho…
You characterise massively distributed power generation as a single point of failure for each house? Even though they also have the grid? I don't think you know what single point of failure means. This is the opposite of a single point of failure architecture.
Almost but not quite. These are mandated to shut down in case the grid fails. There are installations that go into island mode in that case but these are a lot more expensive to set up if you want to pass inspection.
Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels
#324Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think you understand how this works. People voluntarily do this. No one is forced to. Public power providers exist and work. Balcony solar is added and helps save some cost because you don't buy those 800W from the public utility provider.
People are forced to do it by high household electricity prices which are the direct result of the government policy failure. In my childhood everyone (like your parents, your neighbors, all the ordinary people) were growing potatoes. Highly decentralized and fully voluntary sustainable food production, sounds like a dream. This happened of course because the state-run economy created food shortages.
I can easily afford my power bill. I still have a Balkonkraftwerk.
Its fun to do, it makes sense and was easy.
And your potato example is also shit. Being able to buffer a higly complex and easily disruptable supply chain for things you need to survive is smart not stupid.
Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels
#325It's like the backyard furnaces during the Great Leap Forward. Production of electricity like production of steel makes most economical sense at scale. When the economic policy fails so hard it has to resort to backyard anything you know where it's going.
Would you also agree that production of usable energy makes most sense at scale?
With that I mean energy like heat and motion? Because so far it just hasn't been possible to generate electricity at home in a meaningful way. Unlike heat, which everyone largely generates at home.
I would argue that there has been a technological leap, where electricity generation has become possible at home now through a combination of lower prices, ease of installation and feasibility to tie in to the rest of the electrical grid. Banning this new possibility would be a shortcoming of the policy.
Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels
#326> German regulations limit balcony solar systems to 800 watts, enough to power a small fridge or charge a laptop. That gotta be a big laptop!
Also a very big small fridge.
Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels
#327Earlier quoted context omitted.
In the summer the optimal angle where I live (35.5º S) is 12º. Panels lying flat on the lawn are losing only 2% from that. Just now, near the equinox, panels lying flat on the lawn lose around 18% at noon. I'll find a way to prop them up at 50º for winter when the time comes for that (April or May), though that's for sunny conditions. In our typical overcast in winter flat on the ground is probably still fine to catc…
Right. I mentioned the suboptimal 60 degrees because many people hang it from the balcony (90 degrees) and the tilt it a bit, but usually not too much. From what I've seen 60 degrees seems like a good average number.
Yeah, in northern Germany vertical and 60º are pretty much equally good/bad in winter (75º would be ideal), but 60º will be getting 70% more power in summer than vertical, and is near ideal in spring/autumn.
Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels
#328Earlier quoted context omitted.
What a strange take. This is not so much a policy applied from the top, but requested from the bottom. People want to contribute to the transition, and balcony solar installs are a cheap and simple way to do this.
I do see it as the result of policy applied from the top, the policy that resulted in 2x household electricity prices compared to the US (which amounts to 3x difference if you adjust for median household income). I replied in another thread but I still remember how in my childhood all the ordinary people had to grow potatoes. The state didn't order them to, it just created food shortages that's all. You can say it wa…
I don't think that this is comparable. People who struggle with their electricity bills can not afford balcony solar. It has a ROI of a few years with a (low) but comparably large one time upfront cost.
With potatoes you only really pay with your time.
Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels
#329Germany did one simple thing (uncharacteristically) which is removing all the bureaucracy here. Just go ahead and do it. It's fine. Cost in the article is cited at 550 euro. I just browsed amazon.de and you can buy complete plug and play kits here in Germany for as little as 239 euro. Most kits are priced between 300-350 euro. I did not see a many kits over 500. I pay about 70 euro per month for electricity. If it sa…
Not a bad legacy for Robert Habeck (along with the wind reforms), the leader we needed but didn't deserve [1][2]. Interestingly he's recently dropped out of politics and taken a teaching role at UC Berkeley. 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxwVR5JF8Ok 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxnnVPO9GFU
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Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels
#330Earlier quoted context omitted.
A big factor in the quick return (and maybe one reason for its popularity) is that Germany has some of the most expensive electricity in the world. The ROI doesn't look as attractive in France, the US or Norway.
Some good points, i have a few thoughts to add. Norway: yes, they are doing fine (80% EV, btw, so it seems you can actually use EVs in colder weather... I think the nordics are actually way ahead of the rest of Europe when it comes to sustainable energy creation, with norway getting about 90% last year from Hydro - super impressive. https://lowcarbonpower.org/region/Norway France: I think they might turn around, beca…
Norway gets most of its wealth from fossil fuel. While it's not Saudi Arabia nor Venezuela, and they invested in long term sustainability, it's not fair to everyone else to say that they are at 80%EV because they are forward thinkers, but because they have the money to do that.