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Nine things I learned in ninety years

edwardpackard.com

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Re: Nine things I learned in ninety years

#321

Post by lotsofpulp »

miguelxt wrote: post #271
AaronAPU wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If things generally worked out very well for you, it feels good to believe you got there because of your virtues, and that those who didn’t got there because of their vices. It’s the narrative of least resistance.

While I do agree with your opinion, I think the opposite is also true. It feels good to believe you didn't get there because "The game is rigged", "You have to be born lucky", "The house always wins", etc, etc. This defeatist/powerless way of thinking may in fact make it worse for you. When hope is lost, what's left?

>When hope is lost, what's left?

That is what all societies are finding out right now. Before, they could count on women having babies providing a need to hope, but now that children are optional, societies don’t seem to have a replacement mechanism.

Re: Nine things I learned in ninety years

#322

Post by bluecalm »

malnourish wrote: post #178
flanked-evergl wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being married or not is just signing a paper. If we ignore almost all of human history save for the past 50 years, then yes. If we redefine marriage to not mean what most humans that have ever used the word meant by it, then yes. But why would we do these things? If you call all relations between two human beings marriage, you gain nothing, you just lose a word. Marriage is a covenant between two people, a man and…

I'm married to my wife. We lived together happily for more than a decade before we married. We are childless atheists in a neighborhood of other childless, atheist, married couples, some of whom have been together almost as long as my wife and I have been alive. By your definition, are we all unmarried or living in disharmony?

Now I really want to know how you find a neighborhood of other childless atheits!

Re: Nine things I learned in ninety years

#323

Post by [deleted] »

steveBK123 wrote: post #249
grumbelbart2 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bigger picture is though that taking swings every day also requires a bit of "luck". Some people just don't have the energy, education, mindset, or environment. It's easy to assume it would be in our control, but if you're just tired all day every day because, say, your hormone balance is off and no one can tell you why, you might statistically accomplish less than others.

People need to adopt a mindset that no one is coming to save them and have a bias for action. You can go to the doctor. You can move somewhere with better jobs. You can learn stuff online. Obviously any of these things are harder or easier for some people, but no matter what level you are at you need to avoid learned helplessness.

[deleted]

Re: Nine things I learned in ninety years

#325

Post by CM30 »

ropable wrote: post #36

> what an outsized role is played by luck This speaks to me. So much of our life circumstances are beyond our control (parents, genetics, geography, society, wider economy, etc.) It's humbling, how much of our success or failure is influenced by pure chance.

Yeah, and it's kinda depressing how hard it is to get people to accept that. Every community and group seems to operate under the assumption that anyone who's not 'successful' is too lazy or selfish to deserve it, and that those who are winning have to be the smartest, hardest working people around.

The just world fallacy is strong in communities, especially for artistic and creative endeavours like writing, art, music, filmmaking, game design, etc.

Does that mean that effort is worthless? Of course not. Does that mean you should just say "well, I'm not successful, I guess that's just life?". Again no.

But you do need to be humble and accept that in some ways, both your successes and failures were affected by external factors as well as your own efforts. That for how tempting it is to look down at people, that it could just have well have been your life circumstances that didn't work out well, your bets that didn't pay off and your efforts that didn't amount to anything in the end.

Re: Nine things I learned in ninety years

#326

Post by efsavage »

kinnth wrote: post #267

I really love reading the wisdom of older people. Society really dismisses everyone over 80, but I find myself having deep interesting connections with a few people much older than myself (38). Something society always neglects is that everyone goes through the same thoughts time and time again. We all make mistakes and we learn our own way, but when someone's 90, they really have done a lot of it all before. Even if…

> they really have done a lot of it all before

Not even just done it before, but done it multiple times. This is where experience is forged into wisdom.

Re: Nine things I learned in ninety years

#327

Post by hamburglar »

ropable wrote: post #36

> what an outsized role is played by luck This speaks to me. So much of our life circumstances are beyond our control (parents, genetics, geography, society, wider economy, etc.) It's humbling, how much of our success or failure is influenced by pure chance.

I think that in a sense, there is a skill to being lucky. You may have exactly the same opportunities as another person but you may have more capacity to take advantage of those opportunities due to being open minded, adaptable, giving, and curious. I call that lucky.

Re: Nine things I learned in ninety years

#328

Post by codazoda »

ropable wrote: post #36

> what an outsized role is played by luck This speaks to me. So much of our life circumstances are beyond our control (parents, genetics, geography, society, wider economy, etc.) It's humbling, how much of our success or failure is influenced by pure chance.

But, never forget, it’s possible to maneuver yourself into better position for luck to find you.

Re: Nine things I learned in ninety years

#329

Post by ljf »

efsavage wrote: post #326
kinnth wrote: post #267

I really love reading the wisdom of older people. Society really dismisses everyone over 80, but I find myself having deep interesting connections with a few people much older than myself (38). Something society always neglects is that everyone goes through the same thoughts time and time again. We all make mistakes and we learn our own way, but when someone's 90, they really have done a lot of it all before. Even if…

> they really have done a lot of it all before Not even just done it before, but done it multiple times . This is where experience is forged into wisdom.

And in addition they got to watch their friends/family/coworkers succeed and fail many times over.

While it can be very tempting to say 'we tried that before and it didn't work' - the key is people who can understand why it didn't work, or who can encourage you to make your own mistakes and be there to guide you back when needed.

Re: Nine things I learned in ninety years

#330

Post by sir_unix »

There's an increasing amount of neuroscience and psychology research that supports all of these conclusions. In short, our brains haven't evolved as quickly as the environment around us, and our nervous system (e.g., amygdala) tends to react agnostically to sensory, environmental, contextual, etc. inputs. If we are not aware of those reactions and don't redirect them toward "good" weights (taking the definition of "good" and "bad" as Packard describes in Lesson #1), then our brain's neural net just reinforces the weights in a "bad" direction.

The point is that if these lessons come off too "woo woo," spiritual, and rooted in philosophy to you, know that the science of the brain (and thus, the mind) supports all of these conclusions, as well. Specifically, the lessons laid out herein are requisite for long-term and sustaining contentment from a scientific perspective, as well.

I am working on software to deliver this knowledge to people along with tools to effectively implement habits that can help them live better (i.e., more content and purpose-driven) lives.

Lastly, if this read sparked something in your mind and you want to read more, I suggest reading "Something to do with Paying Attention" by David Foster Wallace. It's an incredible novella that, as the title may suggest, deals exclusively with Packard's notion "to keep aware and awake."

Nihilism is the devil and we must defeat him.

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