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Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

reuters.com

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Re: Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

#321

Boring lineup, Lack of recent innovation, poor repairability and a CEO who has alienated people on both sides of the political isle. The 1 trillion dollar package the board is offering Musk is a joke. They need to find a new CEO.

the model y update to mimic the cybertruck made me groan.

I think the old model y looks great. It was a success!

But they messed with it and the new one looks like a duck.

in comparison the model 3 update looked ok.

But for me the relentless march to remove controls from the car is the worst.

It started with no dashboard on the model 3, (crowded central display off to side).

But then got worse and worse.

No stalks makes it unbuyable to me. No drive select stalk (it will guess), no turn signal stalks. Critical controls on the touchscreen. Small targets that are hard to hit in a moving car.

It looks minimal in the showroom, but day to day it makes you a worse driver. It is techno poverty.

Re: Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has had high tariffs on Chinese cars for a long time though. After tariffs, that car would be more expensive in the US than a Tesla Model 3. Also, it likely doesn't meet US crash standards without modifications. And it really would not keep up with traffic on the highways here.

Funny Dacia Spring EV could meet strict EU standards and keep up with traffic on the German Autobahn but you think it's not good for USA. Btw, it's actually Tesla cannot meet strict rules: cybertrack is not street legal in EU.

There's no need for a pissing contest here. Neither the US nor the EU has a "stricter" set of vehicle safety standards than the other. They simply have different standards.

Sometimes the differences are very minor. Sometimes it's a matter of requiring different standard equipment. Different markets around the world take different regulatory approaches in requiring active safety features versus passive safety features. Some markets focus on the safety of the occupants within the vehicle, other markets balance that safety with other road users or people outside of the vehicle. The EU tests what happens when a vehicle hits a pedestrian but the US doesn't. The US tests what happens when somebody's not wearing their seatbelt, but the EU doesn't. The EU and US crash test vehicles into different objects at different speeds and in different directions. Saying that one system is "more strict" than the other is really a gross oversimplification of the global vehicle regulatory landscape.

Heck, sometimes European manufacturers have to remove safety features from an equivalent EU-market vehicle to meet US safety standards. (e.g. Audi matrix headlights) So, just because something doesn't meet US standards doesn't mean I'm calling it bad.

Although I'm not so sure in this case... the Dacia Spring EV has a one-star Euro NCAP rating. So even the EU thinks it kind of sucks. And if you look at where it struggled, you'll see it lacked in occupant protection specifically. Which is probably not good for it being imported into the US, because US standards for occupant protection are generally more difficult to meet.

And does it really keep up with Autobahn traffic? I'm guessing it probably does fine in urban areas. But even the higher trim takes 14 seconds to get to 62mph. This is about 40% slower than the slowest car currently sold in the US. This would not be received well in the US market -- the average vehicle sold here is twice this quick. Also the top speed is 78 mph. This is slower than maximum posted highway speeds in 20% of US states. And prevailing speeds on many non-urban highways in the US are 80+.

That's not to say these are dealbreakers in usability. But nobody's gonna pay 100% tariff to import one, when you could get way better vehicle for sub ~$37,000.

Re: Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

#323
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota sold the most cars of any auto group in 2024. They seem to understand the car market.

They also spent billions trying to destroy EVs. Don't underestimate power of oil and legacy auto's marketing and political influence.

It had little to do with oil, and a lot to do with their managements' irrational infatuation with hydrogen.

Toyota wasted a lot of time and money on that bet, and lost a lot of ground in the market.

Re: Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also spent billions trying to destroy EVs. Don't underestimate power of oil and legacy auto's marketing and political influence.

It had little to do with oil, and a lot to do with their managements' irrational infatuation with hydrogen. Toyota wasted a lot of time and money on that bet, and lost a lot of ground in the market.

> lost a lot of ground in the market

Toyota sells the most cars of any auto maker. What ground was lost?

It's clear Toyota has correctly assessed the market. They got it right.

As time goes on, BEVs will be a bigger percentage of the cars they sell. In the meantime they'll keep selling the cars they've got, including their current BEVs.

Re: Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

#325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny Dacia Spring EV could meet strict EU standards and keep up with traffic on the German Autobahn but you think it's not good for USA. Btw, it's actually Tesla cannot meet strict rules: cybertrack is not street legal in EU.

There's no need for a pissing contest here. Neither the US nor the EU has a "stricter" set of vehicle safety standards than the other. They simply have different standards. Sometimes the differences are very minor. Sometimes it's a matter of requiring different standard equipment. Different markets around the world take different regulatory approaches in requiring active safety features versus passive safety features…

>>> And prevailing speeds on many non-urban highways in the US are 80+.

I'm curious how such traffic can handle trucks at 55mph but cannot handle car with max speed of 78mph.

Re: Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

#326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no need for a pissing contest here. Neither the US nor the EU has a "stricter" set of vehicle safety standards than the other. They simply have different standards. Sometimes the differences are very minor. Sometimes it's a matter of requiring different standard equipment. Different markets around the world take different regulatory approaches in requiring active safety features versus passive safety features…

>>> And prevailing speeds on many non-urban highways in the US are 80+. I'm curious how such traffic can handle trucks at 55mph but cannot handle car with max speed of 78mph.

Nobody said roads couldn’t “handle” vehicles going slower speeds. I said people didn’t want to spend $37k of their own money on a personal car that couldn’t keep up with traffic. People don’t buy semi trucks for grocery getters, do they?

And trucks on US highways often go the speed of prevailing traffic, especially on flat ground.

Re: Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

#327
post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It had little to do with oil, and a lot to do with their managements' irrational infatuation with hydrogen. Toyota wasted a lot of time and money on that bet, and lost a lot of ground in the market.

> lost a lot of ground in the market Toyota sells the most cars of any auto maker. What ground was lost? It's clear Toyota has correctly assessed the market. They got it right. As time goes on, BEVs will be a bigger percentage of the cars they sell. In the meantime they'll keep selling the cars they've got, including their current BEVs.

Given the initial success of the Prius, every Tesla you see on the road should've been a Toyota. (If not something from GM, who has even more experience in blowing an early lead in electrification.)

See also: Amazon's chances in an alternative timeline where Sears wasn't run by morons.

Re: Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

#328
post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> lost a lot of ground in the market Toyota sells the most cars of any auto maker. What ground was lost? It's clear Toyota has correctly assessed the market. They got it right. As time goes on, BEVs will be a bigger percentage of the cars they sell. In the meantime they'll keep selling the cars they've got, including their current BEVs.

Given the initial success of the Prius, every Tesla you see on the road should've been a Toyota. (If not something from GM, who has even more experience in blowing an early lead in electrification.) See also: Amazon's chances in an alternative timeline where Sears wasn't run by morons.

Tesla's own target for sales is to have sold 20 million cars in total by 2035. That figure represents a decline in annual sales for Tesla.

In 2011 Toyota sold 7.9 million cars. In 2023 Toyota sold 11.2 million. In 2024 Toyota sold 10.8 million.

Tesla's ambition is to have sold fewer cars in total in what will then be the 32 year history of the company than Toyota sold in the last two years.

Here's how 2025 is looking for Toyota:

https://www.autoblog.com/news/nearly-900000-cars-sold-toyota...

Toyota got it right.

Re: Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

#329
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They had no trans campaing. There was a single short video with a single personalized can. Calling it campaign is just validating conservative lies again. Truth is, a single trans got a can of beer with own face, made short video and rught wing decided to make it into a campaing, because trans must be destroyed. That is it.

Very expensive beer! That six pack cost them a lot of market share. But I think the wishy washy interview with the marketing person in charge of that decision did not exactly help, with the typical beer chugging target demo.

It was a single can of beer.

The brand was already declining. Americans are drinking less beer and when they do, its higher quality beer.

Imagine you are brought in to grow the business. What avenues do you have? Lower the price? Its already low end product. Move upmarket? Its difficult since the brand has been around as low priced product for decades and it would risk other higher quality brands in the parent companies portfolio.

Whats left? Expand the user base to people that typically don't drink the product.

Once things fell apart, the fact that management overrode the marketing person's decisions and tried to backpedal pissed off the potential new customer base.

Meanwhile the existing base continues to decline either way.

Maybe some items just can't grow no matter what you do. We see this with a lot of processed food junk. People are waking up to how unhealthy a lot of pre packaged food is so companies are trying all sorts of nonsense to keep people (Just look at an account like @snackolator).

Re: Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

#330
post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it was a lot nicer than a mustang Mach e Having owned both, I’m not even sure where to begin with how laughably inaccurate that is. We can start at functioning automatic wipers, 360 degree cameras, parking assist that actually works, a knob to control stereo volume, accurate marketing numbers for range, a dealership network that actually will fix the issue, insurance that isn’t insane, headlight brights that actual…

> parking assist that actually works Are you sure you owned both? You're sort of exposing yourself as never having owned a Tesla at all (at least not a new one). I've never experienced phantom braking in my Y (although I have in a ford escort), and the headlight dimming is pretty good (again in the new model Y, unsure about an old one). Niceness is subjective, so I suppose it's inappropriate to declare it as nicer, b…

> I've never experienced phantom braking in my Y

And with just that statement you’ve lost all credibility. The internet is literally full of endless people complaining about phantom braking including the Tesla forums. The “fix” is to pay for FSD which isn’t a fix at all. It’s extortion.

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