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Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

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Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#321

By the way, a pet peeve of mine right now is that reporters covering court cases (and we have so many of public interest lately) never seem to simply paste the link to the online PDF decision/ruling for us all to read, right in the story. (and another user here kindly did that for us below: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.223... ) It seems such a simple step (they must have been using the rul…

> never seem to simply paste the link

There is a link right there in 3rd paragraph: "U.S. District Judge Amit Mehta", though strangely under the name...

> I would rather be able to see the probably dozens of pages ruling with the full details rather than hear it secondhand from a reporter at this point.

There is no way you'd have time for that (and more importantly, your average reader), but if you do, the extra time it'd take you to find the link is ~0.0% of the total extra time needed to read the decision directly, so that's fine?

> with the full details

You don't have them in those dozens of pages, for example, the very basics of judge's ideological biases are not included.

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is Chrome a better browser than Edge? They are both just custom builds of the underlying Chromium browser. I switched from Chrome to Edge on my Windows machine a couple of months ago for the embarrassing reason that I had so many tabs open that Chrome slowed down to a crawl. (Yes, I'm one of those lazy people who uses old tabs as if they were bookmarks.) Of course I eventually opened enough tabs in Edge that it s…

> How is Chrome a better browser than Edge? I thought this too, until I actually used Edge. It's quite shocking how much advertising there is in it. The default content sources contain an extremely high proportion of clickbait and "outrage" journalism. It genuinely worries me that this is the Windows default. It's such an awful experience.

Microsoft is so frickking dumb they still haven't managed to grasp why the Google experience was better than the MSN/Bing experience.

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#323
post #298
post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I won't call it dead, but it is declining. Their various sources of traffic are now regurgitating Wikipedia Content (and other 3rd party sources) via uncited/unlinked AI "blurbs"...instead of presenting snippets of Wikipedia contents with links to Wikipedia to read more. It's not the only reason their traffic is declining, but it seems like a big one.

Who cares if the traffic is declining? I don’t find Wikipedia useful because it gets lots of visits, I find it useful for the information it contains.

The problem has more to do with editors. The theory is that less visits leads to less editors in the long run.

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But it is easy to see a near future where an AI agent just retrieves and summarizes the case for you. And does a much better job too. I am significantly less confident that an LLM is going to be any good at putting a raw source like a court ruling PDF into context and adequately explain to readers why - and what details - of the decision matter, and what impact they will have. They can probably do an OK job summari…

Llms are already incredibly able to be great at contextualizing and explaining things. HNs is so allergic to AI, it's incredible. And leaving you behind

[dead]

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#325

This is an astonishing victory for Google, they must be very happy about it. They get basically everything they want (keeping it all in the tent), plus a negotiating position on search deals where they can refuse something because they can't do it now. Quite why the judge is so concerned about the rise of AI factoring in here is beyond me. It's fundamentally an anticompetitive decision.

This is an absolute and disgraceful failure by Amit Mehta, a win for corporate power, and a loss for user freedom and the tech industry at large. Unbelievable the degree to which this judge sold out.

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#326
post #323
post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who cares if the traffic is declining? I don’t find Wikipedia useful because it gets lots of visits, I find it useful for the information it contains.

The problem has more to do with editors. The theory is that less visits leads to less editors in the long run.

I may be wrong, but I don’t think the people that edit Wikipedia are the same people that are content with half truths from LLMs and thus no longer visiting the site. So I kinda doubt it matters much.

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is Chrome a better browser than Edge? They are both just custom builds of the underlying Chromium browser. I switched from Chrome to Edge on my Windows machine a couple of months ago for the embarrassing reason that I had so many tabs open that Chrome slowed down to a crawl. (Yes, I'm one of those lazy people who uses old tabs as if they were bookmarks.) Of course I eventually opened enough tabs in Edge that it s…

> How is Chrome a better browser than Edge? I thought this too, until I actually used Edge. It's quite shocking how much advertising there is in it. The default content sources contain an extremely high proportion of clickbait and "outrage" journalism. It genuinely worries me that this is the Windows default. It's such an awful experience.

That's a fair criticism, but aren't you just talking about the http://www.msn.com/ default home page?

That's easy to change. The first time I opened Edge, I opened Settings, typed "home" into the settings search box, and changed the "Home button" setting to "New tab page", which gives a nice simple page with a search box, like Google.

Is there other advertising you've seen in Edge that is different from Google?

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never link outside your domain has been rule #1 of the ad-driven business for years now. Once users leave your page, they become exponentially less likely to load more ad-ridden pages from your website. Ironically this is also why there is so much existential fear about AI in the media. LLMs will do to them what they do to primary sources (and more likely just cut them out of the loop). This Google story will get a l…

> But it is easy to see a near future where an AI agent just retrieves and summarizes the case for you. And does a much better job too. I am significantly less confident that an LLM is going to be any good at putting a raw source like a court ruling PDF into context and adequately explain to readers why - and what details - of the decision matter, and what impact they will have. They can probably do an OK job summari…

[deleted]

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never link outside your domain has been rule #1 of the ad-driven business for years now. Once users leave your page, they become exponentially less likely to load more ad-ridden pages from your website. Ironically this is also why there is so much existential fear about AI in the media. LLMs will do to them what they do to primary sources (and more likely just cut them out of the loop). This Google story will get a l…

> But it is easy to see a near future where an AI agent just retrieves and summarizes the case for you. And does a much better job too. I am significantly less confident that an LLM is going to be any good at putting a raw source like a court ruling PDF into context and adequately explain to readers why - and what details - of the decision matter, and what impact they will have. They can probably do an OK job summari…

"Based on the court's memorandum opinion in the case of United States v. Google LLC, Google is required to adhere to a series of remedies aimed at curbing its monopolistic practices in the search and search advertising markets. These remedies address Google's distribution agreements, data sharing, and advertising practices.

Distribution Agreements

A central component of the remedies focuses on Google's distribution agreements to ensure they are not shutting out competitors:

No Exclusive Contracts Google is barred from entering into or maintaining exclusive contracts for the distribution of Google Search, Chrome, Google Assistant, and the Gemini app.

No Tying Arrangements Google cannot condition the licensing of the Play Store or any other Google application on the preloading or placement of its other products like Search or Chrome.

Revenue Sharing Conditions The company is prohibited from conditioning revenue-sharing payments on the exclusive placement of its applications.

Partner Freedom Distribution partners are now free to simultaneously distribute competing general search engines (GSEs), browsers, or generative AI products.

Contract Duration Agreements with browser developers, OEMs, and wireless carriers for default placement of Google products are limited to a one-year term.

Data Sharing and Syndication

To address the competitive advantages Google gained through its exclusionary conduct, the court has ordered the following:

Search Data Access Google must provide "Qualified Competitors" with access to certain search index and user-interaction data to help them improve their services. This does not, however, include advertising data.

Syndication Services Google is required to offer search and search text ad syndication services to qualified competitors on ordinary commercial terms. This will enable smaller firms to provide high-quality search results and ads while they build out their own capabilities.

Advertising Transparency

To promote greater transparency in the search advertising market, the court has mandated that:

Public Disclosure Google must publicly disclose significant changes to its ad auction processes. This is intended to prevent Google from secretly adjusting its ad auctions to increase prices.

What Google is NOT Required to Do

The court also specified several remedies it would not impose:

No Divestiture Google is not required to sell off its Chrome browser or the Android operating system.

No Payment Ban Google can continue to make payments to distribution partners for the preloading or placement of its products. The court reasoned that a ban could harm these partners and consumers.

No Choice Screens The court will not force Google to present users with choice screens on its products or on Android devices, citing a desire to avoid dictating product design.

No Sharing of Granular Ad Data Google is not required to share detailed, query-level advertising data with advertisers.

A "Technical Committee" will be established to assist in implementing and enforcing the final judgment, which will be in effect for six years."

Frankly I don't think that's bad at all. This is from Gemini 2.5 pro

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#330
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who would this better managed org be? And how would they get the necessary funding?

Personally I'd vote for Apache, or a new FOSS group. They don't need all the funding that Mozilla currently gets (most of which isn't spent on Firefox anyway). I'd rather see that effort than something like Ladybird, personally.

Looking at the financial statements for Mozilla and Apache, Apache'a total revenue ($2.3 million)for 2023 is less than 1% of Mozilla's software development costs ($260 million).

Yes, Mozilla is mismanaged, but I'm very doubtful Apache has the resources to continue Firefox development and stay competitive.

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