I'm happy to answer questions around the new product.
I see it is still not possible to order from Japan.
Is there an ongoing effort on solving this?
Framework Laptop 16
321–330 of 440 posts
Re: Framework Laptop 16
#322Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can upgrade your old Framework 16 to this. Framework 13 wouldn't work anyway because it's a different chassis.
That's exactly my point. When I bought the 13 I figured there would be these kinds of upgrades down the road. You're right to say that was stupid and it was. And next there will be the framework 17, a 16 that's not backwards compatible or something?
I think you are making up a scenario that is not real.
You assume Framework will just abandon models willy nilly and make slight model line changes to break compatibility like moving from 16” to 17”, but in reality they have no track record of doing that.
The original 13” model has been around for 5+ years and it’s been 100% forward and backward compatible through multiple iterations of parts. Framework has never discontinued a product line.
Obviously we can’t predict the future.
Re: Framework Laptop 16
#323You've got a 16 inch Laptop, why are the arrow keys so tiny! And where's the PgUp PgDn Home End Insert Delete cluster? I wish a design-based shop like Framework would have some leadership in the keyboard area. This is why I have been exclusively Thinkpads for my last 3 laptops. Something more niche is that I also enjoy the mouse buttons above the trackpad, I can move with the thumb and click with a finger.
I was just badgering Gemini to find me a modern laptop with keys like the PowerBook g4. It looks like everything went chiclet style keys around 2012. Still on the lookout for anything that’s not chiclet based, but they literally don’t exist.
I have half a mind to buy a really rough looking PB G4, gut it, and see what kind of very small Pi or N100 shaped thing I can fit inside.
Re: Framework Laptop 16
#324Earlier quoted context omitted.
Have you tried holding with one finger and aiming with the other?
Have you? The precision vs a touchpad with buttons isn't even close. It may well be a driver issue in Linux, all I know for sure is that it's an issue that does not exist with touchpads and that I have already spent far too much of my life fiddling with settings trying to get it to behave.
I never had problems with precision on HP high end models, Windows XP up to 2008 and several Ubuntu versions since then to 2022, then Debian.
I own an nc8430 and a ZBook 15 first generation. I use the lower row of three mouse buttons as left, middle and right click. Those touchpads don't move and don't bend. I disabled tap to click as buttons are much better and never move accidentally the pointer by design. Palm detection works very well, basically no issues. I use two finger scroll and pan. Several gestures work but I don't really like them. I disabled everything. I rather use keyboard shortcuts. I defined some of my own especially to navigate among virtual desktops.
There is still one ZBook Fury model with buttons, every other model lost them.
Re: Framework Laptop 16
#325> External adapters are a thing of the past.
This is both hilarious and so perfect, because they're still external adaptors, they're frickin' USB-C dongles! They just fit them within the bounding box of the laptop.
Such a simple, effective solution (if you're willing to sacrifice some volume)
Re: Framework Laptop 16
#326You've got a 16 inch Laptop, why are the arrow keys so tiny! And where's the PgUp PgDn Home End Insert Delete cluster? I wish a design-based shop like Framework would have some leadership in the keyboard area. This is why I have been exclusively Thinkpads for my last 3 laptops. Something more niche is that I also enjoy the mouse buttons above the trackpad, I can move with the thumb and click with a finger.
I mean, they made their keyboard swappable, with open-source firmware. If you are passionate enough, you can make (and sell) a replacement that solves these issues.
Re: Framework Laptop 16
#327You've got a 16 inch Laptop, why are the arrow keys so tiny! And where's the PgUp PgDn Home End Insert Delete cluster? I wish a design-based shop like Framework would have some leadership in the keyboard area. This is why I have been exclusively Thinkpads for my last 3 laptops. Something more niche is that I also enjoy the mouse buttons above the trackpad, I can move with the thumb and click with a finger.
I mean, they made their keyboard swappable, with open-source firmware. If you are passionate enough, you can make (and sell) a replacement that solves these issues.
Making custom electronics goes way beyond "passionate" and into "has specialized skills and enough capital to get these made".
Re: Framework Laptop 16
#328Anyone using Framework for a daily driver that can compare to an M-series Macbook? Specifically, battery life on your OS. Does anything compare to a MBP these days? From a value proposition, it seems good. Our group definitely goes through keyboards and mainboards from spilled tea at least annually it seems, but AppleCare is just a no-brainer, and away we go. I still drive on my original M1 at home without complaint,…
Nothing touches Apple Silicon on battery, including laptops with similar performance per watt. And there's no scenario where, on pretty much any individual performance spec, a FW is going to compete with a Mac. When I first got a 12th-gen Intel mainboard FW13 with the original 55Wh battery running stock Ubuntu, the battery life at best was I can't speak to the FW16s with 85Wh batteries, but I also don't consider them…
> Framework doesn't provide official optimized Linux power management profiles
Is this difficult? Would it not behoove them to do this and get better work-hour scores? I would imagine it would be part of making sure the screen can dim, touch pad works, etc in terms of "building a quality product".
I dont mean this in a snarky way, I just figure if you're making it and know the products in it, couldn't you optimise a power profile for it? Or perhaps they "know" it has an AMD/Intel processor in it, but that isn't enough to really do a worthwhile job and it's more on AMD/Intel to do it?
Re: Framework Laptop 16
#329Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's the bottleneck in getting a Macbook like touchpad experience in a modern non-Apple laptop? Is it software? Some specific company that won't sell parts to anyone else? Patents? I have tried several laptops, and nothing has even comes close in the last ten or so years. I am hoping you might have some unique insight into this! PS: Framework Laptop 16 looks great, will order one later this year and then get a GPU…
If you haven't seen it, this "Linux Touchpad like Macbook" project is related, the last/best effort I've seen in this direction. Here's a random update from a few years ago: https://www.gitclear.com/blog/linux_touchpad_update_december...
Is this effort still underway?
Re: Framework Laptop 16
#330You've got a 16 inch Laptop, why are the arrow keys so tiny! And where's the PgUp PgDn Home End Insert Delete cluster? I wish a design-based shop like Framework would have some leadership in the keyboard area. This is why I have been exclusively Thinkpads for my last 3 laptops. Something more niche is that I also enjoy the mouse buttons above the trackpad, I can move with the thumb and click with a finger.
You probably want a full numpad shifting the entire keyboard off-center as well?
No, this is something terrible the modern thinkpads have. My 2018 era thinkpads have the pg up/down arrow keys and a regular full width keyboard. That's what I want, anyway.