Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

cnbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

321–330 of 642 posts

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#321

Post by Antoniocl »

rs186 wrote: post #291
gibolt wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real issue is all the current bad drivers. A requirement to start re-testing normal people in addition to the elderly would be a large benefit to society.

Complete unrelated, I just wish every driver on the road re-learn that cyclists have the same rights of being on city roads like cars.

How this issue skews probably depends on where you live, but in the area I live, I have the opposite complaint: that bicyclists should re-learn that they are legally required (in my city) to ride on roads, rather than barrelling down sidewalks.

That said, this is coming from me as a pedestrian, so maybe someone who was primarily a driver would have a completely different take from both of us.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#322

Post by bryanlarsen »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #283
meagher wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d believe it, but the fact that any pedestrians/bikers are killed/injured by cars in NYC is unacceptable.

Do you mean that in the sense of "anyone getting killed is unacceptable" or the sense of "we need complete separation between cars and pedestrians/bikers, somehow"?

The rule of thumb for almost completely eliminating pedestrian fatalities is complete separation or a 20mph speed limit. A 20mph speed limit is far more feasible for the 5 boroughs than most other American cities.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#323

Post by kirubakaran »

groggo wrote: post #244
pradn wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Random sampling over time is substantially as effective as having someone enforce the law 100% of the time. It's something like how randomized algorithms can be faster than their purely-deterministic counterparts, or how sampling a population is quite effective at finding population statistics.

It feels less fair though. When everyone is driving x mph over the limit but only you get pulled over, it sucks. So I agree for efficiency of enforcement, but I'd rather see 100% enforcement (automated if possible), with more warnings and lower penalties.

It's only unfair if the innocent are punished. Lot of murders go unsolved. Does that mean the murderers that do get caught are treated unfairly?

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#324

Post by woodruffw »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #283
meagher wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d believe it, but the fact that any pedestrians/bikers are killed/injured by cars in NYC is unacceptable.

Do you mean that in the sense of "anyone getting killed is unacceptable" or the sense of "we need complete separation between cars and pedestrians/bikers, somehow"?

I think there's a third more charitable reading: that current injury and fatality rates are still too high, even if they compare favorably to the rest of the US's rates. It's unrealistic to have no traffic injuries ever; this doesn't imply that NYC can't do better.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#325

Post by SnuffBox »

enricozb wrote: post #193

NYC is so dense it could be a bikers' paradise in the US. Why are we supporting even more car infrastructure :/

I hate to break this to you but outside of microscopic Reddit bubbles like r/fuckcars and similar, people generally don't have a problem with car infrastructure and cars as a whole and most people see cyclists as the vegans of the transport world.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#326

Post by bryanlarsen »

meagher wrote: post #201
xnx wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> pedestrianizing more of the city Replacing dangerous, dirty, noisy cars with safe, clean, and quiet ones seems like a huge pedestrianizing step. What's a "low traffic neighborhood"? Does that allow busses or deliveries?

It’s a step in the right direction, but they still pollute (heavy electric vehicles have a lot more tire dust) and take up a lot space (could close roads and build housing or just have more space for the millions of city residents that don’t have/use cars). LTN still allow buses, emergency vehicles, deliveries, etc. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Traffic_Neighbourhood

EV's have less tire & brake dust than ICE vehicles. https://ev.com/news/study-reveals-evs-produce-less-brake-and...

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#327

Post by yamazakiwi »

kelnos wrote: post #280
tehjoker wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is kinda funny watching people complain here after visiting almost anywhere in Asia. Can't speak for Japan or Korea though.

I've never been to SK, but in Japan things are -- unsurprisingly, as one might guess -- very orderly. For the most part (in cities at least) you don't jaywalk, even when there are no cars on the road.

Same in Korea, just on the other side of the road, very polite and professional, no one breaks rules for the most part, even in Major Cities.

I know a lot of foreigners like Japan for motorcycling specifically because you can "white line" in most places, and the drivers are attentive.

The one quirk I thought was most interesting was Crab Angle Stops or when at a T shape stop lights that have an additional stop light 20 feet further from the intersection. Sometimes the cars will align diagonally to allow more traffic per light and let whoever is in front have a better angle to see traffic on small roads with poor visibility. Then when the light turns green the diagonally aligned cars move back to normal.

Like ////// to - - - - - -

Officially, the 道路交通法 (Road Traffic Act) doesn’t say “you must angle.” It just requires drivers to stop at the line and confirm safety before entering.

The diagonal stop is more of a local driving custom (practical adaptation) rather than a codified rule.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#328

Post by hombre_fatal »

ilamont wrote: post #313
afcool83 wrote: post #239

I live in one of the areas they are actively testing/training in. Their cars consistently behave better and more safely than most human drivers that I’m forced to share the road with. As semi-autonomous and autonomous cars become the norm, I would adore to see obtaining a drivers license ratchet up in difficulty in order to remove dangerous human drivers from the road.

Traffic enforcement, which used to correct some bad driving, has basically evaporated in many parts of the U.S. This has been a long-term trend. A friend who's a cop told me that only when their department got specific state grants would they set up stings of drivers driving in a pedestrian walkway while someone was crossing the street. Here's an example of one such grant program, which is actually funded by the fede…

I grew up in a Texas city, lived abroad for over a decade, and recently moved back to the same city because my girlfriend randomly got a job here.

The number of people who run red lights is giving me culture shock. You have to sit and wait at your own green light because 1-3 vehicles are still running their red light, and it's every time.

As a teen, I saw cops everywhere camping out for traffic violations. I got a few tickets myself for tiny infractions that don't compare to running a red light.

Of course, the icing on the cake is that Texas outlawed red light cameras in court.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#329

Post by vesrah »

mgens wrote: post #293
Natsu wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you actually ride in one, you do notice some off behaviors that I didn't pick up while just driving alongside them. That said, I agree that the bad human drivers have done things far, far worse than any of the cars. The biggest gripe with riding in one is that they're slow, both because of super cautious driving and because they won't take freeways yet.

A month ago I saw a Waymo turn left into a tiny alley in Palo Alto and continue at full 25mph speed, which was alarming. I guess the alley is marked as a regular road in the software? Highlights how even if it's safer than humans on average, they need to minimize these weird behaviors in order to get socially accepted and avoid $$$ liability when there is an accident.

New speedbumps were installed in a school zone near my housing complex recently, we're a heavy Waymo area and I watched one of them launch itself over one without slowing down.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#330

Post by kenhwang »

infecto wrote: post #194
testfrequency wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point wasn’t to say they are the same, more that SF and LA (I would guess) have covered and defeated almost every single challenge and obstacle for an urban environment (sans..weather). LA also has far denser areas than SF, places like DTLA and Koreatown are more dense than most boroughs in NYC (sans Manhattan).

My point was that it will be interesting to see how well it works in NYC where the only way to drive is aggressively in city streets breaking the rules. LA has its share of aggressive driving but as someone who has driven in both, NYC felt like I had to break the rules to go anywhere, LA not so much. Hard to really compare a tiny piece of LA and say it’s more dense and compare it to borough that is in the same range…

Not sure why you have the impression Waymos follow written driving rules. Here in LA they break every rule that LA drivers would with the aggressiveness to match. It really does seem like they try to make them drive as "human" as possible, with all the typical behavior found in the locale. I can't imagine it'd be any different in NYC.
Post reply on HN