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Blood oxygen monitoring returning to Apple Watch in the US

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Re: Blood oxygen monitoring returning to Apple Watch in the US

#321

Post by ToDougie »

realityking wrote: post #307
lan321 wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't sound like the bad part to me. If Masimo wanted to, they'd have offered them the same or more to keep them, but they didn't. I don't believe an employer has any right to expect other companies not to offer positions to their employees. Employees should not be kept in the dark on opportunities for better pay and conditions because you can't or don't want to fight that offer.

Absolutely. But if the new company pays them to just recreate the IP the developed in the previous company - now much faster because they‘ve done it before - that‘s an issue. And patents protect against that. That said, a patent whose primary claim seems to be (based on the workaround) _where_ the processing takes place (ant not _how_) seems like exactly the kinda thing that shouldn‘t be patentable.

If it means anything, Masimo acts like they invented this technology when it originated in Japan.

Re: Blood oxygen monitoring returning to Apple Watch in the US

#322

Post by bloppe »

teeray wrote: post #252
ahmeneeroe-v2 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Rent seeking" is original intent of patents, correct? The theory being that this incentivizes invention.

Except the system overlearned and now it incentivizes invention of patents in lieu of actual inventions.

It can do both

Re: Blood oxygen monitoring returning to Apple Watch in the US

#323

Post by StopDisinfo910 »

wat10000 wrote: post #305
StopDisinfo910 wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are arguing in the void I’m afraid. Once again, poaching describes the comportment of a company towards another. It’s not a statement regarding the morality of accepting of rejecting the offer from the point of view of the employee. It doesn’t in any way implies that employees are the property of a company. The issue is not about whether or not employees are central to work. That much is obvious. The issue is tha…

“That’s why it’s generally illegal for another company to just come and rehire everyone wholesale.” Er, what? Can you elaborate on what makes this illegal?

The hiring in itself is technically okay but if you do it too much - which is what I implied by wholesale - it makes it hard to defend against allegations that you are not misappropriating trade secrets which is illegal. That’s part of the dispute between Apple and Masimo.

Re: Blood oxygen monitoring returning to Apple Watch in the US

#324

Post by mint5 »

rafram wrote: post #257
mint5 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

80% at sea level is very bad. 80% while asleep at 11,500 ft is not unusual. Ref: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10157825/ There’s a chart somewhere in there on mean sleep so2 by elevation

Big news for the 0.18% of the world’s population that lives above 11,500 feet, I guess.

[dead]

Re: Blood oxygen monitoring returning to Apple Watch in the US

#325

Post by hombre_fatal »

hdgvhicv wrote: post #285
hombre_fatal wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even people with sleep apnea don't know they are waking up multiple times an hour all night. You really have no clue how you're sleeping until you put it to the test. Also, I don't think most people are in a position where they feel like they have amazing sleep every night. Yeah, maybe those people have nothing to gain from gadgets kind of like a person at ideal weight doesn't gain anything from counting calories: bu…

And what did you do with that information?

Lots.

1. The heart rate line graph during my sleep made me realize just how bad exercise within 6 hours of bed is. My resting heart rate is 43bpm, yet if I exercise, I'll try to sleep at 60bpm that slowly decreases to 45bpm over 4-6 hours. And it always coincides with worse sleep.

2. I realized how often my HR jumps during sleep. Turns out I have a deviated septum that got bad enough in my 30s to regularly block breathing. I thought I had sleep apnea that would require a CPAP but it turns out I just need nasal strips. No more problems.

3. If you see you have bad sleep, you can now ask the question "how do I improve my sleep?" If you don't know you have bad sleep because you think you're sleeping 8 hours, then you don't realize you have levers to pull.

Re: Blood oxygen monitoring returning to Apple Watch in the US

#326

Post by lovich »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #294
snitty wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>monopoly on blood oxygen measurement in a wearable electronic device And I know this isn't your argument, but that's a VERY narrow market for the purposes of a US inquiry into monopolies. Like, the normal market definition fights are about whether you should be considering "premium smartphones" or "smartphones" as a whole. Or all of the grocery stores in a given region, and whether that should include convenience st…

The definition of a monopoly is that it can engage in monopolistic practices. Poaching IP to destroy a small company is very much a monopolistic practice, and has a chilling effect on the rest of the market. Of course in Apple's case this Masimo story is not the only monopolistic practice. The correct analogy would be a watch market dominated by Casio and Swatch with no independent smaller brands. Because every small…

> Poaching IP

I disagree with this framing where offering more money to employees is described with the same words used to describe stealing property

> smaller company

I mean, ok yea that’s technically true, but Masimo makes billions a year in revenue. They are not a smol bean company

Re: Blood oxygen monitoring returning to Apple Watch in the US

#327

Post by jajuuka »

wyldfire wrote: post #246
0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be a bit more sympathetic if this was not about a trillion dollar company who poached some employees rather than engage in a licensing deal.

They were "poached" or the employees negotiated their value? "anti-poaching" is how big tech companies described their anti-competitive agreements [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L...

They were very clearly poached. They were chosen for their specific knowledge of a product Apple wanted to make and Apple (being one of the wealthiest companies in Silicon Valley and ever) was able to throw out whatever number to get what they wanted. They even put them in an office near their old job.

This isn't a case of "they went looking for a better job". Have you done zero reading on this story?

Re: Blood oxygen monitoring returning to Apple Watch in the US

#328

Post by jajuuka »

vkou wrote: post #278
QuinnyPig wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then let their product lose the feature for multiple years rather than settling for some amount of money that was absolutely trivial to them.

It sets an example for the others.

To be fair, this is something Apple has been doing since the beginning. "Oh cool tech you have there, would be a shame if we just copied it and made sure you got nothing."

Re: Blood oxygen monitoring returning to Apple Watch in the US

#329

Post by jajuuka »

bkirz wrote: post #262
varenc wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Apple Watch already requires an iPhone for setup.

Right, but only for setup. The previous implementation would work if you went on a walk without your phone.

I don't see why that's a problem. They can still record the data on the watch and then when it reconnects to the phone it can send over the data for the analysis. Same as how they store metrics on the watch until it reconnects to a phone to send to the Health app.

Re: Blood oxygen monitoring returning to Apple Watch in the US

#330

Post by jajuuka »

jerlam wrote: post #158
alistairSH wrote: post #132

Did the Watch Series 9+ incorporate a new sensor or different algorithm? I have an older model that has always had blood oxygen (and it was never disabled, as it was for the 9+).

Apple only disabled the pulse ox sensor on watches they sold, distributed, or replaced after the ruling. I don't think Apple disabled a working pulse ox sensor on anyone's watch other than repairs.

Correct. The sensor was the same in the Series 10 and Ultra 2 because in territories outside the US it worked just fine. Similar to how Samsung offer blood pressure readings in certain countries but in others the function is blocked at the software level.
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