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AI is different

antirez.com

321–330 of 920 posts

Re: AI is different

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've ridden just under 1,000 miles in autonmous (no scare quotes) Waymos, so it's strange to see someone letting Tesla's abject failure inform their opinions on how much progress AVs have made. Tesla that got fired as a customer by Mobileye for abusing their L2 tech is your yardstick? Anyways, Waymo's DC launch is next year, I wonder what the new goalpost will be.

The goalpost will be when you can buy one and drive it anywhere. How many cities are Waymo in now? I think what they are doing is terrific, but each car must cost a fortune.

The cars aren't expensive by raw cost (low six figures, which is about what an S-class with highway-only L3 costs)

But there is a lot of expenditure relative to each mile being driven.

> The goalpost will be when you can buy one and drive it anywhere.

This won't happen any time soon, so I and millions of other people will continue to derive value from them while you wait for that.

Re: AI is different

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can’t provide valuable things for “free” en masse without institutionalizing either slavery or robbery. The value must come from somewhere. Utter nonsense. Do you believe the European countries that provides higher education for free are manning tenure positions with slaves or robbing people at gunpoint? How come do you see public transportation services in some major urban centers being provided free of charge…

You're missing the point, language can be tricky. Technically, the state confiscating wealth derived from your labor through taxes is a form of robbery and slavery. It used to be called corvée. But the words being used have a connotation of something much more brutal and unrewarding. This isn't a political statement, I'm not a libertarian who believes all taxation is evil robbery and needs to be abolished. I'm just p…

> Technically, the state confiscating wealth derived from your labor through taxes is a form of robbery and slavery.

Without the state, you wouldn't have wealth. Heck there wouldn't even be the very concept of property, only what you could personally protect by force! Not to mention other more prosaic aspects: if you own a company, the state maintains the roads that your products ship through, the schools that educate your workers, the cities and towns that house your customers... In other words the tax is not "money that is yours and that the evil state steals from you", but simply "fair money for services rendered".

Re: AI is different

#323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To a person from the 1920's which one is more impressive? The internet or chatgpt?

Obvious ChatGPT. I don't know how it is even a question... if you showed GPT3.5 to people from < 20th centuries there would've been a worldwide religion around it.

Interesting perspective.

Re: AI is different

#324
post #7

In every technology wave so far, we've disrupted many existing jobs. However we've also opened up new kinds of jobs. And, because it is easier to retrain humans than build machines for those jobs, we wound up with more and better jobs. This is the first technology wave that doesn't just displace humans, but which can be trained to the new job opportunities more easily than humans can. Right now it can't replace human…

One way to think about AI and jobs is Uber/Google Maps. You used to have to know a lot about a city to be a taxi driver; then suddenly with Google Maps you don't. So in effect, technology lowered the requirements or training needed to become a taxi driver. More people can do it, not less (although incumbents may be unhappy about this).

AI is a lot like this. In coding for instance, you still need to have some sense of good systems design, etc. and know what you want to build in concrete terms, but you don't need to learn the specific syntax of a given language in detail.

Yet if you don't know anything about IT, don't know what you want to build or what you could need, or what's possible, then it's unlikely AI can help you.

Re: AI is different

#325
At the moment I just don't see AI in its current state or future trajectory as a threat to jobs. (Not that there can't be other reasons why jobs are getting harder to get). Predictions are hard, and breakthroughs can happen, so this is just my opinion. Posting this comment as a record to myself on how I feel of AI - since my opinion on how useful/capable AI is has gone up and down and up and down again over the last couple of years.

Most recently down because I worked on two separate projects over the last few weeks with the latest models available on GitHub Copilot Pro. (GPT-5, Claude Sonnet 4, Gemini 2.5 Pro, and some lesser capable ones at times as well). Trying the exact same queries for code changes across all three models for a majority of the queries. I saw myself using Claude most, but it still wasn't drastically better than others, and still made too many mistakes.

One project was a simple health-tracking app in Dart/Flutter. Completely vibe-coded, just for fun. I got basic stuff to start working. Over the days I kept finding bugs as I starting using it. Since I truly wanted to use this app in my daily life, at one point I just gave up cause fixing the bugs was getting way too annoying. Most "fixes" as I later got into the weeds of it, were wrong, with wrong assumptions, made changes that seemed to fix the problem at the surface but introducing more bugs and random garbage, despite giving a ton of context and instructions on why things are supposed to be a certain way, etc. I was constantly fighting with the model. Would've been much easier to do much more on my own and using it a little bit.

Another project was in TypeScript, where I did actually use my brain, not just vibe-coded. Here, AI models were helpful because I mostly used them to explain stuff. And did not let them make more than a few lines of code changes at most at a time. There was a portion of the project which I kinda "isolated" which I completely vibe-coded and I don't mind if it breaks or anything as it is not critical. It did save me some time but I certainly could've done it on my own with a little more time, while having code that I can understand fully well and edit.

So the way I see using these models right now is for research/prototyping/throwaway kind of stuff. But even in that, I literally had Claude 4 teach me something wrong about TypeScript just yesterday. It told me a certain thing was deprecated. I made a follow up question on why that thing is deprecated and what's used instead, it replied with something like "Oops! I misspoke, that is not actually true, that thing is still being used and not deprecated." Like, what? Lmao. For how many things have I not asked a follow up and learnt stuff incorrectly? Or asked and still learnt incorrectly lmao.

I like how straightforward GPT-5 is. But apart from that style of speech I don't see much other benefit. I do love LLMs for personal random searches like facts/plans/etc. I just ask the LLM to suggest me what to do just to rubber duck or whatever. Do all these gains add up towards massive job displacement? I don't know. Maybe. If it is saving 10% time for me and everyone else, I guess we do need 10% less people to do the same work? But is the amount of work we can get paid for fixed and finite? Idk. We (individuals) might have to adapt and be more competitive than before depending on our jobs and how they're affected, but is it a fundamental shift? Are these models or their future capabilities human replacements? Idk. At the moment, I think they're useful but overhyped. Time will tell though.

Re: AI is different

#326
post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same argument could be made for actual engineers working on steam engines, nuclear power, or semiconductors. Make of that what you will.

More like engineers coming up with higher level programming languages. No one (well, nearly) hand writes assembly anymore. But there's still plenty of jobs. Just the majority write in the higher level but still expressive languages. For some reason everyone thinks as LLMs get better it means programmers go away. The programming language, and amount you can build per day, are changing. That's pretty much it.

I’m not worried about software engineering (only or directly).

Artists, writers, actors, teachers. Plus the rest where I’m not remotely creative enough to imagine will be affected. Hundreds of thousands if not millions flooding the smaller and smaller markets left untouched.

Re: AI is different

#327
post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is there isn't enough of those small environmental economies to support everyone that exists today without the technology, logistics and trades that are in place today. You can farm and fish the entire undeveloped areas of NYC, but it won't be enough to feed or support the humans that live there. You can say that for any metro area. Density will have to reduce immediately if there is economic collapse, and…

> The issue is there isn't enough of those small environmental economies to support everyone that exists today without the technology, logistics and trades that are in place today. I agree. I expect some parts of the world will see some black days. Lots of infrastructure will be gone or unsuited to people. On top of that, the cultural damage could become very debilitating, with people not knowing how to do X, Y and Z…

> all that is needed is humans willing to work together

Maybe, but those things are also needed to enable humans to work together

Re: AI is different

#328
> Nor is it possible to imagine a system where a few mega companies are the only providers of intelligence

Why not? This seems to be exactly where we're headed right now, and the current administration seems to be perfectly fine with that trend.

If you follow the current logic of AI proponents, you get essentially:

(1) Almost all white-collar jobs will be done better or at least faster by AI.

(2) The "repugnant conclusion": AI gets better if and only if you throw more compute and training data at it. The improvements of all other approaches will be tiny in comparison.

(3) The amount of capital needed to play the "more compute/more training data" game is already insanely high and will only grow further. So only the largest megacorps will be even able to take part in the competition.

If you combine (1) with (3), this means that, over time, the economic choice for almost any white-collar job would be to outsource it to the data centers of the few remaining megacorps.

Re: AI is different

#329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The taxes will be most burdensome for the wealthiest and most productive of institutions, which is generally why these arrangements collapse economies and nations. UBI is hard to implement because it incentivizes non-productive behavior and disincentivizes productive activity. This creates economic crisis, taxes are basically a smaller scale version of this, UBI is like a more comprehensive wealth redistribution sche…

The assumption here that UBI "incentivizes non-productive behavior and disincentivizes productive activity" is the part that doesn't make sense. What do you think universal means? How does it disincentivize productive activity if it is provided to everyone regardless of their income/productivity/employment/whatever?

Evolutionarily, people engage in productive activity in order to secure resources to ensure their survival and reproduction. When these necessary resources are gifted to a person, there is a lower chance that they will decide to take part in economically productive behavior.

You can say that because it is universal, it should level the playing field just at a different starting point, but you are still creating a situation where even incredibly intelligent people will choose to pursue leisure over labor, in fact, the most intelligent people may be the ones to be more aware of the pointlessness of working if they can survive on UBI. Similarly, the most intelligent people will consider the arrangement unfair and unsustainable and instead of devoting their intelligence toward economically productive ventures, they will devote their abilities toward dismantling the system. This is the groundwork of a revolution. The most intelligent will prefer a system where their superior intelligence provides them with sufficient resources to choose a high-quality mate. If they see an arrangement where high-quality mates are being obtained by individuals who they deem to be receiving benefits that they cannot defend/protect adequately, such an arrangement will be dismantled. This evolutionary drive is hundreds of millions of years old. Primitive animals will take resources from others that they observe to be unable to defend their status.

So, overall, UBI will probably be implemented, and it will probably end in economic crisis, revolution, and the resumption of this cycle that has been playing out over and over for centuries.

Re: AI is different

#330
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Far from an expert on this topic, but what differentiates AI from other non physical efficiency tools? (I'm actually asking not contesting). Won't companies always want to compete with one another, so simply using AI won't be enough. We will always want better and better software, more features, etc. so that race will never end until we get an AI fully capable of managing all parts (100%) of the development process (…

> what differentiates AI from other non physical efficiency tools? At some point: (1) general intelligence; i.e. adaptivity; (2) self replication; (3) self improvement.

We don't have any more idea how to get to 1, 2, or 3, than we did 50 years ago. LLMs are cool, but they seem unlikely to do any of those things.
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