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Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#321

Post by Mawr »

registeredcorn wrote: post #257
brrrrrm wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't deny that (and probably should have caveated this in my OP), but compared to a basketball or football team, the benefit of smart play doesn't seem as significant compared to doping up and pressing hard.

>the benefit of smart play doesn't seem as significant compared to doping up and pressing hard. For the athlete, or for the team? For professional racing strategy is in the hands of the team members on the sidelines - it's less of a team sport (as in athlete) and more of a group sport (as in information parity.) Whether it's motor races or TdF, there's a significant number of factors to consider. What you are going t…

You can break down any activity down to minute detail. It doesn't make it more difficult than another one.

Compare cycling to football (European of course). Nothing about cycling compares to the complex strategy and player skill involved.

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#322

Post by Mawr »

mkesper wrote: post #99
h11h wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One way of thinking about it is how much a sport is skill-based versus fitness-based. Team sports and racquet sports tend to rely more on skill. Cycling and track and field rely more on fitness. A good soccer player isn't going to become a great just by getting a bit fitter, but the advantage given by doping is exactly what it means to be a better cyclist. This doesn't explain why cycling seems to attract more doping…

Soccer very much depends on fitness too.

The parent did not say it doesn't. He said team sports depend more on skill than fitness, which is true.

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#323

Post by chollida1 »

rajbot wrote: post #311
chollida1 wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's the most tested sport by far. Is it? I don't know how to ask this without it sounding argumentative, but how are you measuring this? Just by the number of times an athlete is tested a year? If so where are you getting the data for this to compare it to other sports drug testing regimes?

From the article: > Cycling now spends far more money on anti-doping programs than any other sport

ha:)

I did see that but it doesn't answer where they got the data to conclude this:)

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#324

Post by jnpnj »

phtrivier wrote: post #299
jnpnj wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVB7OX0Oa-Q this is something I never expected to see on HN.

"No one expects the comedy show from 25 years ago"

especially this kind of non-nerd comedy tv show

still epic satire :)

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#325

Post by bsenftner »

motorest wrote: post #249
bsenftner wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why I include "massive leagues". If a city or school district is large enough to impel doping, the entire premise of sport is undermined. Why even bother, the entire enterprise becomes nothing about the sport and everything about "getting noticed, using this platform to stairstep to going pro!!!" It is just exploitative capitalism driving people insane.

> That's why I include "massive leagues". If a city or school district is large enough to impel doping, the entire premise of sport is undermined. I don't think you understand. Some amateur athletes purposely resort to doping even if they are not particpating in major competitions. Hell, check out steroid abuse in bodybuilding circles. Is taking ADHD drugs also a kind of doping? I'm not sure you get the "performance…

Oh I get, too well. I was into the scene decades ago, and exited when I realized how toxic it is, and how heavily marketed it is... and now that level is insane. Cultural toxic masculinity manufacturing is what it is, it's a physical endurance and power fantasy.

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#326

Post by jonplackett »

begueradj wrote: post #80
jonplackett wrote: post #74

Seems like the answer to the question posed is… no

I am familiar with the UFC as a follower: there are many current and former competitors confessed every training camp out there hires experts who know to administer performance enhancing drugs into their athletes in a way they can not be caught when tested. There is always a way to cheat.

I am in no doubt they’re still using drugs! But this headline is clickbait.

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#327

Post by PleasureBot »

kasey_junk wrote: post #116
cujo wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's a safe bet that your big money sports (not cycling) have a lot more doping than cycling. the issue is that you can't report what you don't know. * cycling is a mix of moderate money and lots of drug testing. there are significant incentives to dope, but it's fairly hard to do these days since there is a lot of testing. * big money sports (in the us especially - nfl, mlb, nba) are the jokes of the testing world.…

The nfl testing regime is purely surprise testing based. The bigger difference is that endurance sports have more options for doping than others. Frankly, I think too many things are banned. Blood doping seems no worse than sleep chambers and hgh in correctly applied regimes would take some of the punishment out of football.

The NFL (and other major sports organizations) have no incentive to catch their athletes beyond a token amount to make the general public think the league cares about it. They don't want to catch too many as that could lead to a PED scandal that damages the reputation of the league; for example the BALCO scandal in the early 2000's MLB. Plus PEDs allow their athletes to stay healthy and perform at higher levels.

There's a reason athletes refer to PED tests as IQ tests. Only the very dumb or careless get caught, but the reality is nearly all of the athletes in these leagues have used PEDs at some point in their career.

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#328

Post by PleasureBot »

ahi wrote: post #33
vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doping happens in all sports. It's pretty safe to assume that most/all top athletes are on something.

I replied directly to OP, but applies here as well. Cycling is far more specialized than other sports so the pay off for doping is greater.

The incentive to use PEDs is almost certainly higher in other professional sports than cycling. For athletes in leagues like the MLB, NFL, NBA etc. the average career is quite short and you essentially need to make all of the money for your entire life in 3-4 yeas. Plus the step function of being in the league and making millions vs just missing a roster spot and making almost nothing is so extreme you'd be foolish not to take PEDs to give yourself the best chance at a payday.

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#329

Post by carlosjobim »

Yeul wrote: post #158
jajko wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes those folks just tell the truth. Now if you are OK with cheating and this just annoys you that's another story but lets be honest here - professional cycling became pathetic deplorable 'sport' full of jokes of sportsmen that should not be respected or admired in any way, in contrary. Half of Olympics is heading that way but for some reason cycling was and still is ahead of the curve for quite some time. I'l…

The fact that rich, powerful countries earn more medals at the Olympics should dispel any notion of "fairness".

Let's give all participants a medal.

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#330

Post by ubermonkey »

kjkjadksj wrote: post #282
ubermonkey wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% no. I've been on the bench for about a year, but I spent the last 15 years as a pretty intense recreational cyclist. I was in the tier that you might describe as "the craziest you get without having a racing license." There were very few steel bikes on those rides -- say, less than 10-15%. Carbon is by far the most common material, followed by Ti for the more well-heeled folks. Most of the steel is "modern", but…

The only things an older frame won’t accommodate is electronic shifting and disk brakes. You can run 12 speed its the same cassette width as its always been since probably 7 speed. Stuff like external cables actually are better for you as someone who isn’t a pro cyclist since shifting is smoother without under handle wraps, cables last longer with less tension in the brifter. Easier to service yourself than running t…

>Stuff like external cables actually are better for you as someone who isn’t a pro cyclist since shifting is smoother without under handle wraps, cables last longer with less tension in the brifter.

My bike doesn't have cables at all, since SRAM's electronic groups are wireless, and the brakes are hydraulic.

Actual gear range on a modern 11- or 12-speed bike can be FAR wider than you'd get with 7- or 8-. On gravel bikes where close ratios aren't important you can dwarf an 80s bike's range with a 1x setup. On road bikes, you can keep tight ratios that are great for faster paceline rides while still having a wider gear range.

I mean, then as now faster riders love a straight block cassette, right? In 1989 that might've meant 13-25 or so, with 7 or 8 cogs. My Giant is 10-28 with TWELVE cogs, but 10-30 and 10-33 are available, all of which preserve 1-tooth transitions at the low end of the block.

>People did big descents just fine on rim brakes for decades until they came out with disk and made it seem like an issue.

People had big families just fine for hundreds of years until they came out with vaccines and made it seem like an issue.

I mean, I kid, but in hilly or wet places disc brakes are a giant boon.

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