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Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

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Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#321

Post by exe34 »

wvh wrote: post #292
exe34 wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately I think lesbians are only "far more accepted" in the sense that they turn on straight cunts rather than repulse them. The objectification and othering is the same.

Maybe, but we can't blame people for what they are/are not attracted to on either side of the fence, just their rational responses to "the other". And I'm not sure lesbians are "far more accepted", perhaps as long as they fit a traditional heterosexual idea of beauty and femininity and associated behaviour.

> but we can't blame people for what they are/are not attracted to

That's an odd thing to bring up randomly.

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#322

Post by lukan »

SarahC_ wrote: post #220
puppycodes wrote: post #10

Interesting, I wonder what else this might lead too! Encouraging we might be getting somewhere. I used to live near a Down syndrome center where a bunch of folks lived and I remember this one lady who was kitted out with Britney Spears everything, lunchbox, t-shirt, hat, and headphones. Everyday I passed by the bus stop she would be dancing her heart out to a Britney track waiting for the bus and it made my world a l…

With this new gene information, we may be able to make every Down's. The world would be a much nicer and happier place.

Until food runs out.

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#323

Post by ben_w »

RamblingCTO wrote: post #278
lincon127 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is eugenics, I just don't see how that's a problem. Eugenics isn't inherently bad, you're just thinking of bad eugenics.

no slippery slope here, nope.

Slippery slopes abound everywhere.

The fact that you'd be crushed at a depth of (IDK, 2km or so?) underwater doesn't make "swimming" unhealthy.

My concern with eugenics is that it's a thing which various groups of extremely narrow-minded bigots push for to promote mutually exclusive ideals, ideals which often have much the same level of biological awareness as an untrained idiot picking up a scuba kit and trying to walk from London to New York along the sea floor.

If we go slowly and carefully, if these treatments are optional and not mandatory, we might be able to build a better world without such self-righteous bigots. But this is definitely a case where we want to be slow, spreading this over multiple generations if we can, because we don't know the limits of our own ignorance.

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#324

Post by iLoveOncall »

pfortuny wrote: post #276
iLoveOncall wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how it is ethical AT ALL to let new children have Down syndrome when we have the ability to eliminate the gene. If Nazis hadn't practiced eugenics it wouldn't have been shuned as it is today. There's nothing wrong with eugenics in itself, just with how it's applied.

So there is a moral imperative to abort fetuses with Down's syndrome? Wow, that is certainly difficult to explain. Now abortion has become a moral imperative in some cases...

The article is literally about removing the extra chromosome and not aborting the fetuses...

But yes, I do actually think there is a moral imperative to abort fetuses with diseases that will extremely negatively impact the life of the person and of the people who will have to care for them.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't care for them if they happen to be born, not at all, but I don't really understand how it can be controversial otherwise.

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#325

Post by chongli »

somenameforme wrote: post #180
mathieuh wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It didn’t just happen. It happened through struggle and its continuation is not guaranteed. Look at all the reactionary movements springing up around the world. This is not an area I believe we can settle on “good enough”.

I think societies somewhat naturally wax and wane on most topics, probably because it seems we're simply unable to maintain a middle ground on anything. We always end up taking things to an extreme which, regardless of what that extreme may be, tends to lead to unpleasant scenarios which causes society to start bouncing back in the opposite direction only to repeat the cycle in the equal but opposite direction some t…

That story is trying to paint this as a revival of Christianity but looking at the Pew report and the data paints a different picture.

Conservative Muslim countries show a pattern of overwhelming male dominance in religious service attendance. At the same time, over half of the Muslims in the US are recent immigrants [1]. This raises the question to me: is the resurgence in religious service attendance among men driven primarily by a broad return to the Christian church? Or is it largely an effect of the growing Muslim population in western countries?

[1] https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2018/04/14/muslims-in-a...

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#326

Post by jedimastert »

zarzavat wrote: post #83
SJC_Hacker wrote: post #57

It was well on its way to being eliminated in much of the First World through screening during pregnancy at around 2-3 months. Alot of mothers were electing to terminate the pregnancy and perhaps try again. Especially much of Europe which didn't quite have the moral objections against abortion that the US does, save for a few countries who still have substantial observant Catholics such as Ireland and Poland. Here's…

> Some bioethics experts are concerned I do have to wonder what goes on in the minds of these people. My sister-in-law has a child with Down's syndrome and the situation basically ruined her life. She can no longer work, so they now struggle on a single income, if her husband were to leave her she would be completely screwed. To what end is that in the continuance of ethics?

> She can no longer work, so they now struggle on a single income, if her husband were to leave her she would be completely screwed.

This is not inherent to Down's syndrome, this is because we live in a society that could easily support people but doesn't.

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#327

Post by heavyset_go »

nice_byte wrote: post #78
heavyset_go wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Willing to bet money that it will, there's a ton of investment right now in what I'd call blatant eugenics. There are companies right now making bank on embryo selection based on genetics, the next step is modifying genes instead of rolling a crap shoot and hoping to get what they want. Funnily enough, such companies are funded by and led by some HN subcultures' favorite people, I would know because I was recruited b…

preventing down syndrome is "eugenics"?

Genetic conditions are how they make it palatable, meanwhile they're telling race realist parents that selecting for/modifying X, Y, and Z genes will let them raise ubermensch.

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#328

Post by jedimastert »

loeg wrote: post #35
RajT88 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not advocating any course in particular. But I will observe that when such treatments become available, such conditions become a marker of lower socioeconomic class and the people with the conditions get treated less well by society. This is why we need a better healthcare system.

It's hard to imagine a treatment cost so high that it wouldn't be worth the USG paying for it. Down syndrome kids and adults have some quantifiable economic cost; normal adults are worth some other quantifiable economic benefit; the difference is going to be significantly more than the cost of treatment.

> It's hard to imagine a treatment cost so high that it wouldn't be worth the USG paying for it.

Given that this is also true of universal health insurance and the US government also doesn't pay for that...

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#329

Post by HPsquared »

bboozzoo wrote: post #315
HPsquared wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a bit arbitrary though, isn't it? I mean, are newborn babies really people? The Romans didn't think so. I don't see the big philosophical difference. They can't earn money or pay taxes, and are 100% dependent on parental care and resources. And how about sleeping people? I mean they're unaware of their surroundings. Are sleeping people real people? Sure, they'll inevitably wake up in a few hours, if nothing go…

> Same as how a fetus will inevitably develop into an adult and be fully conscious, if nothing goes wrong. Unless it dies in pain and suffering hours, days, months or a few years after birth due to a defect that we already know can never be cured or fixed by other means. Somehow societies that are least interested or capable in providing any aid to these traumatized families revel the most in their suffering.

That's a special case and the same argument / situation can apply to adults too. But only with extreme caution in both cases.

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#330

Post by orbisvicis »

vtbassmatt wrote: post #308
orbisvicis wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do you think people with Down syndrome can’t “achieve independence and a life of their own”? Based on the anecdotes here. 5 in support, 3 against as of now. I wasn't expecting such a spread, so I did a bit of research. The cognitive problems, though possibly quite severe are not so as frequently as I had assumed. Whereas the medical complications tend to be commonly nasty. As for independence there's a lot of a…

> I'm sorry, what? Those with Down's Syndrome are people, with all the emotions and experiences that entails. If they are supported, nurtured and loved then they'll lead correspondingly happy lives. Heartily agree! My question was a reaction to the last line in the parent comment: > If a child can't achieve independence and a life of their own, why let all parties suffer through that ordeal? I’m sorry that I didn’t m…

You may not agree with my original point. Raising someone with Down's Syndrome is a high risk venture requiring significant capital (physical therapy, speech therapy, medical interventions and surgeries), a large support network (boots on the ground), and an endowment for continuing care once the original parent is no longer capable. Most people cannot afford to provide this, in which case the experience becomes an ordeal for everyone involved, parent and child. If a parent decides to proceed regardless and forewarned then they are possibly being emotionally selfish and a perhaps would be better suited with a pet rather than a child.
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