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Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

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Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#321

Post by jajko »

sneak wrote: post #301
303uru wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

P365 is great if it fits in your hand. But agree, denial has me pretty put off.

The P365 has a design flaw where there is a pinch point on your palm when changing magazines. The first time my partner used it, she gave herself a blood blister on the palm of her hand. Additionally, the trigger is super mushy, with like 4 different sticky break points, where only the last one is actually for firing. I hated everything about it; we bought it only because it fit her hand. It was my first and last Sig…

What about P226? I heard only raving reviews on that one.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#322

Post by spacecadet »

spl757 wrote: post #133

There are really two separate claims being made about the P320 and unintentional discharges. One claim is that the gun can fire when dropped at a certain angle from a certain height. The voluntary "recall" lets you send it back to Sig and they replace some parts. I think the cause was because the trigger itself was bulky enough for a drop to give it enough inertia to fire, but I'm not 100% sure on that. The other cla…

Use to really enjoy shooting SIG, they felt well made, reliable, hell the military was adopting them over the 1911... Nothing led me to get rid of it, but I just found Glock to make a better handgun all around. Either way, much prefer single action revolves for their safety, accuracy, and reloading.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#323

Post by TiredOfLife »

ivraatiems wrote: post #257
TiredOfLife wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Do you have any evidence of this? The only thing I can find anywhere is a video of Ian timing a trans cosplayer who's doing a shooting match dressed as 2B from Neir: Automata ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhn18QhVzVM ), and an Instagram post of him with a gay 2nd-amendment advocate ( https://www.instagram.com/p/C2nh1HIy_uS/?hl=en ).

https://www.reddit.com/r/liberalgunowners/comments/1e78bjz/k...

As Karl has deleted his twitter posts, there is a screenshot

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#324

Post by wl »

jibe wrote: post #264
zimpenfish wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The various legislation [...] do not apply. Well, except specifically for Sig Sauer on the topic of an external safety in New Hampshire[0]. Which, given that's the thing people have been filing lawsuits in New Hampshire about, is a bit of a political issue, no? [0] https://www.nhpr.org/nh-news/2025-05-28/sig-sauer-p320-pisto...

The lack of an external safety is not a defect. Many guns, probably a majority of new sales don’t. Anyone buying P320 knows there is no external safety. Sig should be liable for defects, and potentially negligent design, but seems reasonable not to be able to sue them for not including an external safety.

The US military uses the M17 and the M18, two versions of the P320 that have manual safeties.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#325

Post by AngryData »

RickJWagner wrote: post #145

Lordy, who knew Hacker News had so many gun enthusiasts? I learned something new today.

I mean the people here are largely from the US. And while some politicians and the media likes to pretend gun ownership is something only deeply conservative rednecks hold to, it simply isn't true, gun ownership and the support of gun owner rights in the US crosses all political and social boundaries. And it makes perfect sense when you realize how few people in the US trust the cops, military, courts, or politicians to protect them from others, and they have seen the very real threats of many groups and organizations that have repeatedly put forth ideals of wanting to kill others for petty ideological bullshit.

On top of that you have to add in the important historical contexts weapons are involved in which garners peoples interest. And then there is the engineering ingenuity and craft involved in all the mechanics of how they operate and the {hopefully) fine machining and techniques used in creating them, the same way someone might marvel at the internals of different clocks or watches.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#326

Post by ragazzina »

nabla9 wrote: post #307

This is a good example of social hysteria. 1. The P320 had a real issue with firing when dropped. Although it had passed all drop tests, when dropped at a 25-degree angle onto the rear sight, the weight of the trigger was enough to fire the gun. There is a voluntary fix available for older weapons, but no recall has seen necessary. Now, we have many videos and widespread discussion about this. Millions of people and…

>1. The P320 had a real issue with dropping when fired.

Did you mean firing when dropped?

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#327

Post by nabla9 »

lazide wrote: post #319
nabla9 wrote: post #307

This is a good example of social hysteria. 1. The P320 had a real issue with firing when dropped. Although it had passed all drop tests, when dropped at a 25-degree angle onto the rear sight, the weight of the trigger was enough to fire the gun. There is a voluntary fix available for older weapons, but no recall has seen necessary. Now, we have many videos and widespread discussion about this. Millions of people and…

No, this is a very real manufacturing and design issue that SIG insists doesn’t exist, despite numerous well documented cases. See [ https://drive.google.com/file/d/1L7RXrneHlzfjrewMFIeeyc-nel3... ] for one exceptionally well documented case. In this situation, the FBI was able to duplicate the ‘spontaneous firing of a chambered round’ by pressing down slightly on the slide with nothing else going on. SIG needs to ge…

There are no numerous well documented cases. You link to one well documented case that was document I was referring to. It does not say what you said.

They were not able to duplicate the firing the way you think BRF was able to replicate firing in holster with keys in hand.

---

From the document:

"The MSP motor officer had objects in his hands at the time of the event, including keys."

then

"BRF was successful in using keys, both flat and serrated profiles, to press the trigger while the M18 was holstered. The keys were approximately 1.7” and 1.0” respectively. The trigger could be fully pressed to the rear with sufficient pressure against the side of the trigger only, or by using the holster as a fulcrum. During this test it was observed that the keys caused an abrasion on the trigger guard near the area of the abrasion seen on the weapon when it arrived (Figure 13)."

There was abrasion from the keys in the gun, BRF was able to replicate firing in holster with keys in hand.

From the conclusion: "examination of the subject weapon did not independently provide evidence of an uncommanded discharge it does indicate that it may be possible if sear engagement is lost. The disabling of the striker safety lock through movement and friction creates a condition which merits further exploration to fully assess potential risk."*

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#328

Post by myrmidon »

franktankbank wrote: post #309
spacephysics wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A week or so ago the FBI report investigating an incident of unintentional discharge back in 2024 was released via FOIA. This particular case was a police officer who had the firearm in the holster, and by just normal movement it went off. Multiple layers of the striker fire system safety’s failed, and fired the chambered round. What was particularly beneficial/unique is the P320 was kept in the holster when given to…

Crazy that Sig Sauer is pushing back on this as lies then. (per featured article)

I don't think that is crazy at all, our whole system incentivizes corporate behavior exactly like this.

From your tone I assume that you would expect Sig to come forward, analyze, discuss and hopefully solve these problems as soon as possible.

But that would be utterly stupid from their point of view. Public opinion cares very little about the details-- anytime you get associated with issues like this is simply bad for your brand/stockpric: downplaying, denying and gaslighting is absolutely the way to go here for the company.

IMO to fix this you would need to strongly increase personal liability specifically for misinformation and delays in cases like this, and we would need to reward good behavior (proactive fixes, honest communication).

But just look at the whole tetraethyl lead debacle: This cost at least a million years of human lifes (!!), after the lead industry denied known problems and purposefully obstructed/discredited critical researchers (e.g. R. Buyers and H. Needleman) for decades. I strongly believe that a number of decisionmakers should have ended up with a dead penalty or lifelone imprisonment, but there were ZERO consequences for anyone involved, and current rethoric around "deregulation" makes it obvious to me that zero lessons were learned.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#329

Post by soco »

kortilla wrote: post #306
solatic wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reason manual safeties are going away is that for side arms, time matters A LOT. Gun fights are typically over within just a few seconds and the person who fires first has a huge advantage. I know there are a lot of people who share this opinion, but speaking as ex-military, I think it's quite disingenuous and dangerous. Real life isn't some old-fashioned Western film where draw speed matters. If an adversary i…

This isn’t true in robberies where someone pulls a gun as an intimidation tactic. There are plenty of videos where the store owner shoots a robber who pulled out a gun before the robber could fire.

I suppose the robberies where the shop owner gets shot instead aren't getting the same amount of clicks like the "justice being served" ones, so maybe that's the explanation.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#330

Post by solatic »

kortilla wrote: post #306
solatic wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reason manual safeties are going away is that for side arms, time matters A LOT. Gun fights are typically over within just a few seconds and the person who fires first has a huge advantage. I know there are a lot of people who share this opinion, but speaking as ex-military, I think it's quite disingenuous and dangerous. Real life isn't some old-fashioned Western film where draw speed matters. If an adversary i…

This isn’t true in robberies where someone pulls a gun as an intimidation tactic. There are plenty of videos where the store owner shoots a robber who pulled out a gun before the robber could fire.

It's rather debatable whether it should be legal for store owners to shoot robbers and call it self-defense; not all states protect shop owners in such circumstances, and state law may differentiate between when robbers pull lethal weaponry and when robbers pull toy guns that were not actual lethal threats. In the US you take further risk if there end up being racial differences between the shop owner and robber. Consider https://www.quora.com/When-is-it-legal-for-a-shop-owner-to-s... as a quickly Googled example.

A shop owner's actual best strategy, in states without firm stand-your-ground or castle doctrine laws that also apply to businesses, is probably an under-the-counter button that calls for police as a silent alarm while responding slowly to stall for time (and consider closing up shop and moving if local police are not quick and reliable to respond). Even in states with more friendly legal environments, risking your life by drawing to defend your inventory or cash register is practically the definition of penny-wise, pound-foolish. You are risking your life over, what, several hundred or a few thousand dollars? And even if you do walk away from the gunfight, how much would it cost to repair all the damage from the gunfight; if you get injured, how much are the hospital bills and subsequent increase in your medical insurance premiums?

No, while the Second Amendment may still be alive on paper, I think its protections don't do much for shop owners these days. A more effective defense would be if that police-alarm button also released a quick-acting sleeping gas, but those aren't really available in real-world contexts and carry lots of unintentional risks.

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