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Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

antirez.com

321–330 of 434 posts

Re: Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Model efficiency is outpacing Moore's law. Moores law is dead, has been for along time. There is nothing to outpace. > That's what DeepSeek V3 was about. This would be a foundational shift! What problem in complexity theory was solved that the rest of computing missed out on? Don't get me wrong MOE is very interesting but breaking up one large model into independent chunks isn't a foundational breakthrough its basi…

I agree with you that Moore's Law being dead means we can't expect much more from current, silicon-based GPU compute. Any improvement from hardware alone is going to have to come from completely new compute technology, of which I don't think there is anything mature enough to expect any results in the next 10 years. Right now, hardware wise, we need more RAM in GPUs than we really need compute. But it's a breakpoint…

> And I think these tools are basically useless to skilled senior devs. All this "boilerplate" code folks keep cheering the AI is writing for them is just not that big of a deal. 15 minutes of savings once a month

Yep... Copy and paste with find and replace already had the boilerplate code covered

Re: Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

#322
post #258

I don't understand. Is author suggesting manually pasting redis C files into Gemini Pro chat window on the web?

I was mostly nodding my head until he got to this part. The fundamental requirement for the LLM to be used is: don’t use agents or things like editor with integrated coding agents. So right, is he like actually copying and pasting stuff into a chat window? I did this before Co-Pilot, but with cursor I would never think of doing that. He never mentioned Cursor or Claude Code so I wonder if he's even experienced it.

I'm a huge fan of claude code, max subscriber, etc. But... if you're working on a very specific problem and you're not being lazy - you're _better off_ to manually curate the context yourself rather than rely on Claude Code to collect it or know what to use. Even @'ing the files into the context... didn't we just see them extend the window on the number of lines this would _actually_ push into the context?

Before claude code was around I had already learned very quickly that exactly what antirez is describing, literally copy/pasting code into the chat verbatim, was _wildly_ effective. So much so that I had Claude build me a jetbrains plugin to streamline the process for me - I would select the files I wanted to include in context in a tree-style view of the project and it simply had a 'Copy' button that would, when pressed, compile the files into a single markdown document with simple metadata about each included file (filename, path) and a simple "divider" between files.

And, also like OP states, it's wildly more effective to take this approach combined with a new context/session/chat for each new task. (So, with Claude, I used projects heavily for this and this copied context markdown document was added to the project files and then I'd just start a new chat in that project any time I wanted to work on something that included them/that context I had crafted)

Claude Code and the "agent" approach is wildly effective, no doubt. But it doesn't really support this sort of very specific and "heavy" approach the the "problem". Rather - it's actually working pretty hard to use as few tokens as possible and weave through the maze of trying to be token efficient while getting/finding/using context that _is_ available to it but not presented directly to it. Rather - if you just feed it the whole ass class/module/package and provide a detailed, focused and intentful prompt you might be really surprised what you get.

These agents are _really_ going to thrive when the context window isn't a problem anymore. Claude (not code, but the desktop app, so using a "project") essentially one-shot implementing the necessary updates to phpredis (PHP extension in C for Redis) to support the new vector set data type. I first cloned the phpredis repo locally, initialized claude code and told it what I wanted to do and what the repo it was working with was and asked it to analyze the repo and the code and provide me a list of the files that would be essential for it to have in context when building out that new functionality. It provided me the list of files - I packed them up in a claude project and started over there. The only issues were related to it mixing up/assuming some stuff related to standard Redis commands and versions. And it's own tests caught that, fixed it. I only used this extension in my local/dev environments as I wanted to test the vector sets in Redis from within the same ecosystem my application was already working within (phpredis is significantly more performant that it's alternatives (which support the new commands) and it, also, serves as a perfect example of another of antirez's points... the utility provided by these tools to do things as "throwaway" proof of concepts is just amazing. I'm not a C developer, I didn't know anything about compiling php extensions (or how weird that whole ecosystem is in PHP-land) - I would have never gone through that effort to test just one method of doing something prior. I would have just used what was available rather than even contemplating doing something like forking an extension in a language I'm not familiar with and fixing it up the way I needed it to work (only because of time, I'm always down for a challenge, but I can't always afford one).

Context is king. Your ability to communicate to the box what you want is next in line for the throne.

Re: Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

#323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was mostly nodding my head until he got to this part. The fundamental requirement for the LLM to be used is: don’t use agents or things like editor with integrated coding agents. So right, is he like actually copying and pasting stuff into a chat window? I did this before Co-Pilot, but with cursor I would never think of doing that. He never mentioned Cursor or Claude Code so I wonder if he's even experienced it.

Right, this didn’t make much sense to me either. Who’d still recommend copy-and-paste-into-chat coding these days with Claude Code and similar agents available? I wonder if he’s got agents / IDEs like windsurf, copilot, cursor etc where there is more complexity between you and the frontier LLM and various tricks to minimize token use. Claude Code, Gemini CLI etc aren’t like that and will just read in whole files into…

> agents / IDEs like windsurf, copilot, cursor etc where there is more complexity between you and the frontier LLM and various tricks to minimize token use.

This is exactly why he's doing it the way he is and why what he describes is still the most effective, albeit labor intensive, way to work on hard/complex/difficult problems with LLMs.

Those tricks are for saving money. They don't make the LLM better at its task. They just make it so the LLM will do what you could/should be doing. We're using agents because we're lazy or don't have time or attention to devote, or the problems are trivial enough to solved with these "tricks" and added complexities. But, if you're trying to solve something complex or don't want to have a bunch of back and forth with the LLM or don't want to watch it iterate and do some dumb stuff... curate that context. Actually put thought and time into what you provide the LLM, both in context and in prompt - you may find that what you get is a completely different product.

Or, if you're just having it build views and buttons - keep vibing.

Re: Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

#324
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was a hardcore vim user 10 years ago, but now I just use PyCharm to work. I'm paid to solve problems, not to futz around with vim configs. Can you make vim work roughly the same way? Probably you can get pretty close. But how many hours do I have to sink into the config? A lot. And suddenly the PyCharm license is cheap. And it's exactly the same thing with LLMs. You want hand crafted beautiful code, untainted by AI…

> I was a hardcore vim user 10 years ago, but now I just use PyCharm to work. I'm paid to solve problems, not to futz around with vim configs. The reason I don't like those arguments is that they merge two orthogonal stuff: Solving problems and optimizing your tooling. You can optimize PyCharm just as much you can fiddle with Vim's config. And people are solving with problems with Vim just as you do with an IDE. It's…

Yes, PyCharm has settings, but I've barely touched them. In 99% of the cases, the out of the box experience just works. Can't exactly say that about vim (or emacs).

Re: Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

#325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was a hardcore vim user 10 years ago, but now I just use PyCharm to work. I'm paid to solve problems, not to futz around with vim configs. The reason I don't like those arguments is that they merge two orthogonal stuff: Solving problems and optimizing your tooling. You can optimize PyCharm just as much you can fiddle with Vim's config. And people are solving with problems with Vim just as you do with an IDE. It's…

Indeed. I've been a vim user for almost two decades, and it's been a long, long time since I"ve had to spend time solving problems/optimizing my tooling. Yes it was a big up front investment, but it's paid off immensely. I don't think I'm anything special so please don't misunderstand this as a brag, but I routinely have people enjoy "watching" me use vim because I can fly around the codebase with lightning speed, of…

What kind of crappy machines do your coworkers have? VS code takes 2-3 seconds at most for me to load.

Re: Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

#326
post #141
post #25

> Gemini 2.5 PRO | Claude Opus 4 Whether it's vibe coding, agentic coding, or copy pasting from the web interface to your editor, it's still sad to see the normalization of private (i.e., paid) LLM models. I like the progress that LLMs introduce and I see them as a powerful tool, but I cannot understand how programmers (whether complete nobodies or popular figures) dont mind adding a strong dependency on a third part…

The models I can run locally aren't as good yet, and are way more expensive to operate. Once it becomes economical to run a Claude 4 class model locally you'll see a lot more people doing that. The closest you can get right now might be Kimi K2 on a pair of 512GB Mac Studios, at a cost of about $20,000.

a) Rent a GPU server. b) Learn to finetune your models. You're a programmer, right? Whatever happened to knowing your tools?

OP is right, these people are posers and fakers, not programmers.

Re: Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

#327
A good way to get a model to answer questions about a codebase without overwhelming it or exceeding its token count is to: 1. just give it the directory structure 2. ask it questions based on that 3. after it answers a question ask it if there are any specific code files it needs to better answer the question you asked 4. attach only those files so it can confirm its answer and back it up with code

Re: Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

#328
post #33

Can anyone recommend a workflow / tools that accomplishes a slightly more augmented version of antirez’ workflow & suggestions minus the copy-pasting? I am on board to agree that pure LLM + pure original full code as context is the best path at the moment, but I’d love to be able to use some shortcuts like quickly applying changes, checkpoints, etc. My persistent (and not unfounded?) worry is that all the major tools…

I use Jetbrains AI assistant for its great integration with the editor and the codebase, and have been experimenting with Claude Code too. Jetbrains Assistant still has better editor integration for things like reviewing generated diffs and generating code based on currently selected code. My augmented workflow is to “chat” with GPT because it’s free and powerful, to refine my ideas and surface things I hadn’t though…

I'm actually building something for JetBrains, it's called https://sweep.dev. We're trying to bring next-edit prediction (like in Cursor) to JetBrains IDEs.

Re: Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

#329

A good way to get a model to answer questions about a codebase without overwhelming it or exceeding its token count is to: 1. just give it the directory structure 2. ask it questions based on that 3. after it answers a question ask it if there are any specific code files it needs to better answer the question you asked 4. attach only those files so it can confirm its answer and back it up with code

you can upload a zip of a feature files as they are in the project and ask to implement it on another platform on chatgpt 4.5, works pretty good.

Re: Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

#330
post #271
post #25

> Gemini 2.5 PRO | Claude Opus 4 Whether it's vibe coding, agentic coding, or copy pasting from the web interface to your editor, it's still sad to see the normalization of private (i.e., paid) LLM models. I like the progress that LLMs introduce and I see them as a powerful tool, but I cannot understand how programmers (whether complete nobodies or popular figures) dont mind adding a strong dependency on a third part…

Strong dependency? I can still code without LLMs, just an order of magnitude slower. There is no dependency at all.

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