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Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

open-web-advocacy.org

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Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#321

Post by stahtops »

SpikedCola wrote: post #204
pxeger1 wrote: post #113

Relatedly, all Google apps (e.g. Maps) on iOS try very hard to push Chrome on you (even though iOS Chrome still has to use WebKit). When you click an external link, they present you the options of Chrome, Google (the search app), or Safari. This happens even if you don't have Chrome/Google installed, so they take you to the App Store instead of opening the webpage. If you choose Safari, it still doesn't open Safari,…

In the same way, Apple is equally difficult about forcing the use of Apple Maps. If you receive an address in an iMessage, clicking/long-holding will always open in Apple Maps. There is no way to share to Google Maps (it doesn't appear in the list), and the default setting to use Google Maps doesn't affect iMessage. You have to copy the address, switch to Google Maps, paste it in, and search. I would much prefer clic…

I don’t want it to open google maps or ask me to open google maps. Stop trying to make things worse for everyone.

Google maps and google.com shouldn’t prompt either. No prompts.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#322

Post by freedomben »

stavros wrote: post #53
jeroenhd wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can run Gnome Web for free. It's the open source version of WebKit so you won't be able to see all the tweaks Apple adds to their proprietary build, but it's close enough that obvious differences are visible, at least on desktop. Safari on iOS cannot be tested without paying Apple so I generally don't for my personal stuff either. All of that said, American developers often can't even be bothered to support chara…

Right, but approximately zero people have ever said "this website doesn't work on Firefox, so I won't use this website". They say "this website doesn't work on Firefox, so I won't use Firefox".

I did exactly that with Mailgun and Ramp.com

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#323

Post by mattl »

robocat wrote: post #317
vladvasiliu wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what I observe, it opens in the "default app" for "navigation". I've just tried this on my iPhone, running iOS 18.5. If I click on an address received via iMessage, it will open the "default app for navigation". If I long press it, the context menu will say "get directions" which opens the "default app", open in "google maps" if it's set as the default app. There's no option to open it in Apple Maps. If th…

> default app" for "navigation". > iOS 18.5. Where is that setting? Settings | Apps | Default Apps has no option for Navigation (iPhone SE 18.5, in New Zealand). Maybe EU thing?

https://support.apple.com/en-us/121430

* Navigation (in some countries and regions1) –– choose another app instead of the Apple Maps app to use when opening links for a location

I don't have this option in the US.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#324

Post by vladvasiliu »

mattl wrote: post #323
robocat wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> default app" for "navigation". > iOS 18.5. Where is that setting? Settings | Apps | Default Apps has no option for Navigation (iPhone SE 18.5, in New Zealand). Maybe EU thing?

https://support.apple.com/en-us/121430 * Navigation (in some countries and regions1) –– choose another app instead of the Apple Maps app to use when opening links for a location I don't have this option in the US.

Possibly an EU thing then, I’m in France.

However, when I use Google Maps, I do have the behavior described elsewhere in this thread: it constantly bugs me to open the links in chrome (which I’ve never had installed) even though I always click “use default browser”. Googling something in safari also regularly prompts me to install chrome.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#325

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

jlokier wrote: post #270
pxeger1 wrote: post #113

Relatedly, all Google apps (e.g. Maps) on iOS try very hard to push Chrome on you (even though iOS Chrome still has to use WebKit). When you click an external link, they present you the options of Chrome, Google (the search app), or Safari. This happens even if you don't have Chrome/Google installed, so they take you to the App Store instead of opening the webpage. If you choose Safari, it still doesn't open Safari,…

Several comments point out this doesn't happen on Android. I'm using Android, with my default browser set to Firefox Focus, and I found: - Every few months, the default browser gets reset to Chrome. I don't know this has happened until I realise I'm looking at something in Chrome. Then I look at the default browser setting, see it changed to Chrome (without my consent, and as far as I know, no notification), and I ch…

I would suspect your phone maker or a rogue app is changing it on you. That doesn't happen on a Motorola phone with FF.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#326

Post by gruez »

danbruc wrote: post #212
stockresearcher wrote: post #103

Even if you get past the roadblocks Apple has put in place, it’s not beer and skittles for browser makers in the EU. The CRA, which is now in effect, lists browsers as class I important products. Technical documentation, design documentation, user documentation, security conformance testing, a declared support period at the time of download, software bill of materials, the legal obligation to respond to and make all…

We are not generally used to this in our field but just think about the amount of paperwork you have to go through in order to construct a bridge or an airplane. Browsers have become a critical component and it seem not really unexpected that there will eventually be legal requirements to help to ensure that browsers are safe given the amount of software that runs on top of browsers. And this is also not new, there h…

>but just think about the amount of paperwork you have to go through in order to construct a bridge [...]

Yeah, I do. Guess which industry has seen negative productivity growth in the past 2 decades, even though the broader private sector grew by 50%?

https://www.economist.com/content-assets/images/20250712_WBC...

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#327

Post by gruez »

Rexxar wrote: post #314
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is why the EU's GDP versus the US is now only 65% and shrinking. The regulations are about beating US companies into compliance, sometimes with righteous motives; but there's no forethought on how a domestic EU startup might be able to comply, or how a startup would convince investors to take the gamble.

> US is now only 65% and shrinking. It's a fake news that just don't take into account on currency value change (euro has lost some value between 2019 and 2024). But if you look really want to look at it this way, I have a bad news for new: USA has shrink 15% since January compared to Europe as EUR go from 1$ to 1.15$. If we look at GDP at purchasing power parity from 2007 to 2023 we have this: - European Union: 31,1…

>GDP per capita, PPP (current international $)

In other words, it's already been adjusted for exchange rates. If you adjust for today's USD/EUR exchange rate, you're double-adjusting it. The US dollar has dropped in the recent months, and much of that is arguably due to bad decision making by the current administration, but it hardly refutes the claim that US growth has outpaced EU growth for the few decades.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#328

Post by Spivak »

alex1138 wrote: post #207

Why can't the internet just be fun for once

Because the web became too "capable." Fun is incompatible with a platform made by and for serious businesses looking to make money with it. It's why the cozy web is a thing that emerged from the corporate theme park that the clear web has become.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#329

Post by robertoandred »

SoftTalker wrote: post #232
semiquaver wrote: post #153

> Safari is the highest margin product Apple has ever made, accounts for 14-16% of Apple’s annual operating profit Does anyone know what this means? Safari is built in to the OS, how exactly would you measure its margin? Are they just talking about the Google search deal?

Safari is the default browser and they don't support ad blocking very well. It's easily the worst web browsing experience of any platform I've used in the last 5 years.

Ad block works fine on Safari.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#330

Post by p0w3n3d »

amiga386 wrote: post #195
p0w3n3d wrote: post #166

First of all. We must not agree that all the market will be taken by one engine (i.e. Chromium) Sadly there's no incentive for this, of course we have Firefox (still, right?) but it may perish because of underfunding for example. We used to have opera, IE, those engines are lost. So what I think about the EU directive is that it basically allows one company (Google) take over the whole market. Because what we have to…

> Firefox [...] may perish because of underfunding Hindsight is 20/20, but remember that Google has paid Mozilla 3.8 BILLION DOLLARS in the past 10 years alone: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Corporation#Finances You could do a lot with 3.8 billion dollars, if you spent it on your core mission and not chasing Bay Area trendy shit. Mitchell Baker is still there, making phat bank, she's just the chair of the Moz…

I'm not getting into details. Open Source is getting quickly beyond the "I'll do it in my garage in my free time" phase. It has a lot of illnesses (kernel patching acceptance problem etc), but if we want to have some neutrality, it should be funded. We've seen world with only proprietary software. And we don't want to come back there
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