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Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels

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Re: Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels

#321

Post by mosquitobiten »

rf15 wrote: post #114
mosquitobiten wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haven't we been doing exactly what you say since like forever? Aren't "asshole" or "creep" or "nice" just labels coined a long time ago that already distort someones actual behavior or some situation between 2 people? Or used for being mocked or commended? I say at least in current times the new generations are expanding that vocabulary in trying to be more precise but the people that are more of a following type kee…

Yes, but this time it's with the veneer of scientific legitimacy.

It's certainly not uncommon for specialists in any scientific field to roll their eyes when someone outside their discipline discusses their work.

Re: Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels

#322

Post by nradov »

KolibriFly wrote: post #313
Paracompact wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, though possibly for different reasons. Those support systems may or may not be weaker than they were in generations past, but they are certainly more likely to say "I can't help you, go get professional help" than in the past. In some ways this is a good thing. It is good if bipolar people get the medication they need faster, and can start living their best lives. But as someone who almost died to depression…

Yeah, calling depression a "disorder" sometimes misses the point entirely when despair is a logical response to how things are

Cheer up! For the average HN user, things are better now than they ever have been in human history.

Re: Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels

#323

Post by steve_taylor »

drewcoo wrote: post #171
deanCommie wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

except they weren't really "support systems" i mean they were, if you got lucky. If you were neurotypical; if you bought in to the local religious sect's particular flavour and embraced it wholeheartedly; if you followed the other local cults of sports fandoms; if you were lucky enough to either have family without their own trauma that didn't take it out on you OR decided to repress it in exactly the same way that t…

> It's why there's now suddenly an influx of ADHD and Autism diagnosis I claim the DSM-5 is why. We changed diagnostic criteria then we diagnosed. People who used to be "normal" were suddenly "undiagnosed until late in life." But the people themselves hadn't changed much, just the diagnostic criteria.

DSM-5 took a bunch of distinct disorders and rolled them into one new disorder called Autism Spectrum Disorder. The only problem it solved is to reduce the number of disorders with unknown pathologies.

My classically-autistic son who needs a lot of support apparently has the same disorder as a nerdy guy who comes across as a bit abrasive, doesn't understand the point of small talk, and would rather work on Linux kernel patches on a Saturday night than hit the town.

Re: Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels

#325

Post by kingkongjaffa »

imetatroll wrote: post #275
Aurornis wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - if you give people the chance to place a label on themselves to give a name/form to a problem, they’ll take it. This one is widespread among the young people I’ve worked with recently. It’s remarkable how I can identify the current TikTok self diagnosis trends without ever watching TikTok. There’s a widespread belief that once you put a label on a problem, other people are not allowed to criticize you for it. Man…

This is simultaneously funny and sad. I wonder when alcoholism will get a front row seat during zoom meetings (or even IRL meetings). "Can't help it hick I'm an alcoholic". I think a lot of societal change these days can be summarized by the idea that self-labeling is seen as transforming something into "everyone else's problem".

This is interesting point.

Western society has basically built a hyper capitalist system that creates individualistic consumers, but has failed to hold individuals accountable to minimum standards.

The bar has never been lower and we just sort of amble on as a lonely, isolated society so long as the stock market grows quarter to quarter.

Re: Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels

#326

Post by nradov »

apples_oranges wrote: post #208
mcdeltat wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have wondered - but have no evidence either way - if the stress we encounter nowadays differs to stress of the past. At some point very long ago most of us were stressing about things like food, water, surviving the night. Now most of us are stressing about things like work pressure, debt, global disasters. I wonder if the nature of the stressors have changed from immediate and acute to increasingly abstract and ch…

I think you are right with chronic vs immediate stressors. Economic anxiety could be the big one, and people don’t see the end of the tunnel.

Medieval peasants didn't see the end of the tunnel either. I'm skeptical that the type and quantity of stress is really worse now.

Re: Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels

#327

Post by steve_taylor »

colechristensen wrote: post #37
mouse_ wrote: post #8

> Now they are being taught that their normal personality is a disorder. According to a 2024 survey, 72% of Gen Z girls said that “mental health challenges are an important part of my identity.” Only 27% of Boomer men said the same. Could this be because modern women have far more social expectations placed on them than boomer men did, and are thus struggling generally speaking more than boomer men had to?

>Could this be because modern women have far more social expectations placed on them than boomer men did, and are thus struggling generally speaking more than boomer men had to? No. "Mental health" concepts have just become prominent in the mythos of young women. Everybody has their struggles and competing over who has the most is not a productive area of discussion. Contemporary young women really like talking about…

It's definitely a fashion. I sympathise with those who legitimately have these conditions and are dismissed as attention-seeking.

Re: Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels

#328

Post by vladms »

borski wrote: post #97
djoldman wrote: post #69

The part that seems to be lost in all this is that there's really no purpose to learning/exploring/explaining unless it points to action. Knowing you have ADHD, childhood trauma, attachment issues, etc. is useless if that knowledge does not enable you to take action or if you don't intend to take action. Unless you just enjoy the learning for the learnings sake, seek to learn so as to plan and execute.

> Knowing you have ADHD, childhood trauma, attachment issues, etc. is useless if that knowledge does not enable you to take action or if you don't intend to take action. That’s not actually true, and misses the point. Knowing you have ADHD, alone , helps you stop blaming yourself and hating yourself for those things that are caused by the ADHD. It doesn’t excuse it, but understanding that those things aren’t moral fa…

For me, having people consider "moral failures" aspects of their personality is the root of the problem. We should not have that except for the most horrible things (murder, etc.). Still, after living in a couple of different countries, it is definitely not done to the same extent everywhere. We probably should all pay more attention not to impose random sets on "standards" on others.

Re: Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels

#329

Post by nradov »

js8 wrote: post #282
theusus wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We just suffered at that time and prayed. Today we suffer and work together.

Also people used to smoke and drink a lot of alcohol. So it's possible that stress has objectively decreased, yet subjectively increased, as we are more aware of it. But yeah it's an interesting question, and with the Internet as well. The 1980s world I grew up in as a kid (in Czechia) was more dangerous than the Internet-focused world of today; yet young people seem to be more stressed by the latter.

That depends on the time frame. Tobacco only spread beyond the Americas in the 16th century. And really poor people have never been able to afford much tobacco or alcohol; those are luxury products.

Re: Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels

#330

Post by Fluorescence »

iambateman wrote: post #14

As a child, my dad’s brother fell out of a bunk bed and got a traumatic brain injury that would kill him 15 years later. My dad experienced real trauma but was told to bottle it up. After 30 years, he finally went to counseling and it was transformational for him. By contrast, I had some mean fifth grade classmates who still live in my head in uncomfortable social situations… Did my dad have trauma and need to put a…

> Do I have trauma? Nope. But I do have some work to do...

You might be selling yourself or others short with that notion of trauma that excludes what sounds like bullying.

I personally don't find traumatic impact to be determined by the severity of the event. If anything, it feels like I am built for the "big stuff" like family tragedy and during such events, where others have fallen to pieces, I can step up, I am more focussed and capable than normal. A stoic acceptance of such events comes naturally, it's life, it happens and I know I am needed.

In contrast, small events: rejection, failure, embarrassment, conflict etc. can be paralysing, debilitating, brain-breaking poison that I can't escape with out great suffering and effort.

The cases that cause me effort are expressly where the impact is irrational. Natural grief, sadness at misfortune etc. heal with time but irrational impact is where an inconsequential grit of sand has seized the entire gearbox and only grow without attention.

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