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Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

nytimes.com

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Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#321

Post by SllX »

jeremyjh wrote: post #260
SllX wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like it or not, the elected President does lead on defending American interests, including which ones to prioritize, and they get to do that because they won the election.

You are the one who said we defend American interests. If you can't defend that statement, then just retract it. You seem to be under the misapprehension that I am talking about your Orange Guy. I am not. Clinton, Bush, Obama, Trump, Biden all murdered people and should be held accountable.

> You seem to be under the misapprehension that I am talking about your Orange Guy.

I’m not. (EDIT: just edited this in, though I thought I’d already written this part earlier when I quoted you. My bad.)

> You are the one who said we defend American interests. If you can't defend that statement, then just retract it.

We do defend America’s interests, but the President—any sitting President—sets the agenda for how the American State and Military goes about it. Resource allocation is a part of leading. What part of that is difficult to understand?

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#322

Post by throw310822 »

AlecSchueler wrote: post #261
throw310822 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct, but let's not forget that at the end of all this complicated mess it's Israel that reaps the benefits (money, territory, its enemies reduced to rubble). It's hardly by chance.

Why can't they benefit by chance?

Because the chances of them benefitting randomly but consistently on all fronts (money, territorial gains, diplomatic protection, political protection- see anti BDS laws-, military protection) and for decades is abysmally low. The only rational explanation is that all these actions' ultimate goal is to benefit Israel.

(It's also perfectly rational that this is denied and alternative explanations are offered, because nobody would openly agree to be hijacked in favour of a separate entity).

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#323

Post by slt2021 »

vkou wrote: post #315
slt2021 wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you are being dishonest. Only 161 people were convicted at Nurembourg trials, Nazi Germany's population was 70 mln (I am not even including Italy or Japan). The rest of the Nazis were given amnesty and continued working for the USA, or continued living/serving as usual as part of West Germany's Wehrmacht forces. The whole process was heavily politicized and completely sham, massive tortures were used to obtain "evide…

What sort of punishment do you think would have been appropriate for the systemic extermination of an entire race of people? And for starting a war that killed tens of millions? For an illegal coup against the government of a country (which is what the Nazis did in 33)? How could you think that 161 convictions was enough for this? Far more than that had direct agency and culpability for those crimes.

don't you think that if there was some form of systematic extermination system, there should have been more than 161 people involved in it??????

this basic contradiction basically tells you that it was all bogus, either there was no systematic extermination, or there was not enough people brought to justice for their crimes.

How many people do you think are required to do anything systematic on the territory spanning from France to Belarus ?

161 people is probably the headcount of my local DMV office.

also, the fact that mainstream western history over-indexes on the plight of one ethnic group (6 mln dead), and completely ignores the deaths of Soviets (27 mln dead) or China (20 mln) pretty much seals this whole thing as bogus politicized process.

Typical eurocentric history rewriting, while simultaneously white-washing the crimes of the same white europeans

I am not even mentioning genocide of civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki via nuclear bombs and genocide of civilians in Dresden: all three cities were basically civilian with no large military armies in there. Mostly women elderly and kids died

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#324

Post by MPSFounder »

Quarrelsome wrote: post #171
ryandrake wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's not overlook that Israel has bought all previous US presidents back to its founding, and more than enough Congresscritters. We have been treating Israel as if it were the 51st state, including unconditionally funding and defending it.

I think we can point to Trump as a particular outlier, who in his first term green lit the capital move from Tel Aviv to Jeruselum, burning considerable political captial among Israel's detractors, in exchange for..... absolutely nothing (seemingly). As well as his general rhetoric (like his comments on Gaza) being considerably out of keeping with most of the Presidents before him.

I disagree.

1. Jimmy Carter mentioned in his biography that Obama asked him not to speak at the DNC because he acknowledged Palestinians deserved a right to live peacefully in one of his speeches. I revisited that speech, and it was by all accounts tame. He explicitly mentioned Obama's Jewish chief of Staff describing AIPAC as opposing this, and Carter was denied a speech at the DNC for this very reason (including his support for a two state solutions, which the American jewry by all accounts opposes through their actions, despite their rhetoric). A US President was shunned from US elections because he was slightly critical of Israel. Let that sink in. 2. Nixon describing AIPAC influence and Pelosi describing how the US capitol could burn while ensuring Israel thrives: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53x_zrkJwDs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEpPk1BBFP8

The point of the above is American sitting Presidents or influential politicians describe the pressure they face of subjugating US interests to Israel's because America's economy is dominated by Jews and Evangelicals, who believe Israel must survive at all costs (including to the detriment of American interests). I understand how religiosity can lead to undermining America in favor of Israel. I cannot comprehend how Americans can defend this in good faith. Being America first is incompatible with the conduct of Israel, including its founding, for it is a colonial apartheid state that was founded on the murder and dislocation of families. I think it is difficult for most of us to imagine that the victims of a Holocaust, an abominable crime, can in turn be filled with so much hatred that they resort to the very crimes they were the victims of. I believe we went into Iraq and we fund Israel because powerful forces in these United States wish for us to do their dirty work, including when this work harms American interests, and most importantly, the values most of us hold dear: that every human being has the right to life, liberty and the security of his person.

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#325

Post by [deleted] »

SllX wrote: post #313
freeopinion wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I callout the naivety of believing the the U.S. President personally decides the "American interest" of every action taken. It is a reality today that a nameless, faceless, unelected somebody on the third floor of a building in Arkansas or Arizona can decide on the spur of the moment whether a person in Yemen or Canada should die and press the button to make it happen at the hands of the U.S. government. No elected o…

If you’re talking about drone operators within the military, they are part of the President’s chain of command. Accountability resides there.

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#326

Post by MPSFounder »

bigtones wrote: post #7

>> Casper Klynge, a former Danish and European Union diplomat who worked for Microsoft, said the episode was in many ways the “smoking gun that many Europeans had been looking for.” Damn right. Strong evidence that Europe should look after their own, and not rely on the good old US of A. Written by an Australian who thinks we should do the same down here.

Europe is very pro-Israel. You act as if you have been champions of human rights and a subjugated people like the Palestinians. As far as I know, Ireland is the only exception. Israel could have executed Greta on camera and the Swedish embassy would have sent a strong worded letter. Europe has no power whatsoever in any of this

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#327

Post by Quarrelsome »

tguvot wrote: post #311
Quarrelsome wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we can point to Trump as a particular outlier, who in his first term green lit the capital move from Tel Aviv to Jeruselum, burning considerable political captial among Israel's detractors, in exchange for..... absolutely nothing (seemingly). As well as his general rhetoric (like his comments on Gaza) being considerably out of keeping with most of the Presidents before him.

The Jerusalem Embassy Act of 1995[1] is a public law of the United States passed by the 104th Congress on October 23, 1995. The proposed law was adopted by the Senate (93–5),[2] and the House (374–37).[3] The Act became law without a presidential signature on November 8, 1995.[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_Embassy_Act

that law included a 6 month waiver to delay the move and every President from Bill Clinton onwards perpetually signed those wavers. Donald Trump allowed it to lapse, which is the point I'm making; he's an outlier.

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#328

Post by Quarrelsome »

ImJamal wrote: post #285
Quarrelsome wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we can point to Trump as a particular outlier, who in his first term green lit the capital move from Tel Aviv to Jeruselum, burning considerable political captial among Israel's detractors, in exchange for..... absolutely nothing (seemingly). As well as his general rhetoric (like his comments on Gaza) being considerably out of keeping with most of the Presidents before him.

> the capital move from Tel Aviv to Jeruselum Israel considers their capital to be Jerusalem. Was there any other country where we just reject the city they consider their capital? Like would we tell Germany that we won't recognize Berlin as their capital and would instead tell them we are going to consider Hamburg their capital?

ignoring the fact the move of the capital is controversial move among the groups previous administrations wanted Israel to work with. The delay of the capital move was a tool held over Israel's head by previous US administrations that Donald Trump gave up, seemingly for nothing.

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#329

Post by Quarrelsome »

MPSFounder wrote: post #324
Quarrelsome wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we can point to Trump as a particular outlier, who in his first term green lit the capital move from Tel Aviv to Jeruselum, burning considerable political captial among Israel's detractors, in exchange for..... absolutely nothing (seemingly). As well as his general rhetoric (like his comments on Gaza) being considerably out of keeping with most of the Presidents before him.

I disagree. 1. Jimmy Carter mentioned in his biography that Obama asked him not to speak at the DNC because he acknowledged Palestinians deserved a right to live peacefully in one of his speeches. I revisited that speech, and it was by all accounts tame. He explicitly mentioned Obama's Jewish chief of Staff describing AIPAC as opposing this, and Carter was denied a speech at the DNC for this very reason (including hi…

That's worthwhile context, however I don't think it dents the point I'm trying to make. Many US presidents have been supportive of Israel, I'm just making the point that I interpret Donald Trump to be _friendly_ as opposed to simply supportive.

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#330

Post by tguvot »

Quarrelsome wrote: post #327
tguvot wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Jerusalem Embassy Act of 1995[1] is a public law of the United States passed by the 104th Congress on October 23, 1995. The proposed law was adopted by the Senate (93–5),[2] and the House (374–37).[3] The Act became law without a presidential signature on November 8, 1995.[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_Embassy_Act

that law included a 6 month waiver to delay the move and every President from Bill Clinton onwards perpetually signed those wavers. Donald Trump allowed it to lapse, which is the point I'm making; he's an outlier.

it was literally law made us congress with a large majority. saying "trump did it", will be ignoring objective reality
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