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I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

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Re: I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

#321

Post by Tangurena2 »

grugagag wrote: post #229

There’s a disturbing trend of people living im their car who have a job or more and who aren’t doing drugs or have a serious mental ilness aside from the anxiety from the lifestyle of living in their cars. Youtube is full of interviews of these people.

Last year, in my state, the legislature outlawed being homeless by defining it as the crime of "unlawful camping" [0]. It allows for sleeping in your car if and only if the registration and insurance are current AND you move the car every 12 hours. You can also use violence to defend your property against "unlawful campers" and/or squatters and/or people whose lease/rental period has expired.

0 - https://apps.legislature.ky.gov/record/24rs/hb5.html the 2024 "crime bill".

Re: I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

#322

Post by yesfitz »

nikanj wrote: post #275
papa0101 wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That, and reduce the immigration ffs. Importing a city-sized population (500k+) every year? - Sorry mate, you just won't be able to build a new city every year.

In the 1950s the UK was adding about 260k babies per year with a population of about 50 million, or about 0.52% per year Net migration (immigrants - emigrants) in 2024 was about 0.63%. I would hope the productivity advances in the last 75(!) years would allow the Uk to build enough homes for 0.63% growth, when our 1950s tools and technology allowed them to accommodate a 0.52% growth

Housing demand caused by births and immigration are different. A baby generally calls for an additional bedroom (easier away from the city), an adult migrant generally calls for their own residence near other migrants (easier in the city).

In the past, the population was growing even while net migration was negative. This means people were having babies. This trend reversed in the '80s and migration has made up somewhere between 37% and 128% of annual population growth since then.[1]

There'd have to be some incredible innovation to overcome increased regulation around zoning and dwelling construction generally, NIMBYism, financialization of everything, and a preference shift towards living in land-scarce cities (urban population up ~145% since 1950).

1: https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/uk-population...

Re: I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

#323

Post by Ccecil »

lmm wrote: post #56
Ccecil wrote: post #8

From what I have seen there isn't a housing shortage as much as an "affordable housing" shortage. Just my observation. Tons of overpriced apartments being built at 2x the price of the average renter. Housing subsidies will be next. Another attempt to prop up the rampant capitalism by means of socialism.

> From what I have seen there isn't a housing shortage as much as an "affordable housing" shortage. It's generally much more illegal to build cheap housing, both in the direct sense that building codes require all new housing to be built to extremely high standards, and the indirect sense that in places without by-right development (which is most desirable cities sadly) your neighbours are going to fight a lot more a…

Not really talking about new builds.

Where I live the majority of affordable housing has been bought up and turned into investment rentals or vacation rentals. They will leave the houses empty instead of lowering rent.

Current average rental cost is 3x what the average renter makes. More apartments are being built (very cheap, inefficient designs) but the cost is still above what the average renter makes.

Collusion is a bigger issue than new builds.

Re: I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

#324

Post by Ccecil »

diet_jerome wrote: post #195
Ccecil wrote: post #8

From what I have seen there isn't a housing shortage as much as an "affordable housing" shortage. Just my observation. Tons of overpriced apartments being built at 2x the price of the average renter. Housing subsidies will be next. Another attempt to prop up the rampant capitalism by means of socialism.

I share your frustration with only overpriced, luxury housing being built. However, I think you are misattributing the blame here. The reason why only expensive luxury housing gets built in so many areas is almost always because the local government only allows developers to build luxury apartments. If housing construction was deregulated, then actual rampant capitalism would see profit in building affordable housing…

Not talking about luxury. It is about raising prices on what was affordable 5 years ago. Companies/Corporations purchasing the rentals in the area and doubling the rent because a website told them they should.

Just my observations from my area.

Re: I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

#325

Post by Kon5ole »

I think the article is satirizing a strawman.

Most of the people being ridiculed are not homeowners looking down their nose at the homeless, they are basically renting from the banks and chained to mortgages. They will become homeless themselves if the value of housing drops too far from what they borrowed.

It will also have ripple effects in the form of banks going under, retirement funds being depleted, and the economy as a whole tanking. If homes become cheaper too quickly the result will be a lot more homeless, not fewer.

In short, there are very valid non-selfish reasons why people, corporations and politicians don't want to make homes lose value too quickly. It's not malice against the homeless.

This is a systematic problem in many western nations and it doesn't have a simple solution.

Re: I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

#326

Post by thrance »

anon291 wrote: post #274
thrance wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very much agree. This is how I feel too in regards to this "abundance liberalism": some people think they can fix the whole country by deregulating zoning laws and tweaking a few numbers. It seems foolish to me. Whatever the solution is, I am convinced it requires (re)building actual social nets and welfare.

And yet milei did basically exactly that in Argentina. Sometimes the need to overcomplicate is itself irrational. Why must the solution involve more than that?

Can you seriously claim that Milei improved the material conditions of Argentinians? At best, he sold the country for a quick buck to make a few numbers look good, but ultimately doomed the country. I can't think of a single place where austerity was met with positive long-term outcomes.

According to this outlet [1], Argentina seems to have experienced a recent spike in homelessness.

As I said, it's foolish thinking you can fix everything with this "one simple trick". Housing is expensive because the market is gamed, deregulating it further won't fix shit. Those who make it expensive will always succeed in keeping it this way, if we don't take away their power and try to make the game fairer.

[1] https://www.batimes.com.ar/news/argentina/quarter-of-rough-s...

Re: I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

#327

Post by ahmeneeroe-v2 »

fragmede wrote: post #304
papa0101 wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That, and reduce the immigration ffs. Importing a city-sized population (500k+) every year? - Sorry mate, you just won't be able to build a new city every year.

Tell that to China, who has been building so many new cities that their housing crisis is too many homes.

China and the UK are not comparable in scale. Also China isn't importing permanent immigrant populations

Re: I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

#328

Post by [deleted] »

meheleventyone wrote: post #319
tim333 wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of the issue in the UK is getting permission to build anything. My dad had a 160 acre farm near london, you can get nordic type cabins for ~£50k ( https://www.quick-garden.co.uk/log-cabins/homes/ ) and you could stick loads there for little money but can you get permission? On no. I can understand not wanting to give windfall profits to folks like my dad who did nothing but the government could buy land and dev…

The cost goes beyond the mere material cost of the house itself but if you have a sizable new development how does it fit within the infrastructure where it would be built. Everything from providing services to having adequate road infrastructure. No doubt there is some wonky things in planning but it's also not a case of YOLO'ing up a bunch of cabins. Not to mention that small single homes aren't a very efficient us…

[deleted]

Re: I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

#329

Post by tacticalturtle »

casey2 wrote: post #316

I never understood these posts as if the average homeowner has any power at all over zoning laws. You are just scapegoating the people who show up to townhalls and the hypothetical voter that will vote out politicians who lower property values. In reality it's always the fault of the politician who refuses to make necessary change because it will hurt their personal career. This entire article reeks of christian self…

In Massachusetts it’s the voters themselves to blame.

Massachusetts passed a law mandating upzoning in communities well served by public transit:

https://www.mass.gov/info-details/multi-family-zoning-requir...

And town voters in certain communities have instead consistently voted down plans to move into compliance, and instead choose to endlessly sue the state to delay it:

https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2025/03/27/timeline-t...

These voters aren’t hypothetical scapegoats - they’re real.

Re: I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

#330

Post by PicassoCTs »

Kon5ole wrote: post #325

I think the article is satirizing a strawman. Most of the people being ridiculed are not homeowners looking down their nose at the homeless, they are basically renting from the banks and chained to mortgages. They will become homeless themselves if the value of housing drops too far from what they borrowed. It will also have ripple effects in the form of banks going under, retirement funds being depleted, and the eco…

This is one of the reasons, why climate-change risks can not be priced into home prices. Take europe- after several instances, homes in mountanous regions and near small rivers/springs are to be expected to be regularly destroyed or damaged with high statistically likelihood. Examples abound:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_European_floods

Now, if the risk was assessed reasonable, the risk would be priced into the housing in those regions and industrial activities in these regions. Austria, germany and some other regions would see significant drops in value. Same goes for florida and california, with forrest fires and hurricanes. The market can not be rational, if your lifelihood and pension depends on it.

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