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Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

thecity.nyc

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Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#321

Post by FireBeyond »

sQL_inject wrote: post #105
stingrae wrote: post #22

It is insane that federal agents are allowed to roam around in masks, without ID and just arrest people.

As a legal immigrant who waited years to get my citizenship let's adjust some words here: "It's insane illegal immigrants are allowed to roam around without ID and commit theft by subsisting on the programs legal immigrants pay for."

As a legal immigrant who waited years to get my citizenship lets point out that most of those immigrants actually pay for the same programs too, though not always "in their name". Undocumented immigrants still pay tax and deductions on their paychecks, too.

Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#322

Post by FireBeyond »

ensignavenger wrote: post #217
disattention wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone can literally just buy/make a uniform. Especially concerning if badges aren't visible. This argument doesn't hold much water imo.

Perhaps, but the comment I was replying to was claiming "not wearing uniforms" which isn't what was going on. I have no idea if badges were displayed at any point, but this was a federal courthouse, one would hope that they would be asking for identification. It should also be noted that according to the article, NYPD was present at the time. I don't think, given the facts I currently have, that claiming he didn't kn…

> It should also be noted that according to the article, NYPD was present at the time.

Two NYPD officers were present, Landers' security detail. They weren't there to effect or assist with the arrest.

Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#323

Post by archagon »

Smoosh wrote: post #281
mlsu wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's fantastic that right libertarians have the opportunity to own me, a lib. The silver lining to all of this is all of the epic lib-owning that can be done as a result of the destruction of the rule of law. But, by my reading, traffic court and HOA fees were not cause of all of this. Right libertarians rightfully complained in 2001 when the DHS was formed; they again rightfully complained in the 2010's when Snowden…

What people don’t seem to ask is, what will all of those enforcement officers do once they have deported a sufficient number of people such that the task becomes more difficult?

Ghoulish shit: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/afghan-ally-detained-by-ice-imm...

> "For more than three years I worked for the U.S. military back in my home country," Naser said in the video as the masked officers took him into custody. "I came here to make a better life. I didn't know this was going to happen like this for me."

Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#324

Post by _DeadFred_ »

mlsu wrote: post #42
duxup wrote: post #4

The whole story of telling ICE agents to just go out and find people on their own seems like a setup to empower the executive branch to have their own group of thugs. Without guidance they do what want outside the judicial system and sensible oversight / rules. This seems to be a pattern in most non democratic countries...

Another thing that is troubling is that immigration law is sort of a parallel system to normal criminal law. The rights for the accused are lesser and obligations for officers are more lax. The burden of proof is lower. It's easier to get warrants and the rules of evidence are more relaxed. There is a parallel authoritarian system being built up, starting with the creation of DHS in 2001 and ending god knows where. T…

I mean all ICE would really have to do is get people to agree to a TOS and in the USA that's good enough for you to now be forced into a parallel (quasi)legal system. The government already has this TOS in the form of plea deals which include giving up your constitutional rights.

Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#326

Post by RHSeeger »

unyttigfjelltol wrote: post #109
RHSeeger wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like it would be possible for state and local forces (police) to arrest and imprison ICE agents that are acting illegally. Specifically, arrest them for kidnapping when the nab people off the streets. Sure, they'll get out because they can lie and pretend they have cause; but they could be locked up for a while at least. And do it enough, and maybe they'll start thinking twice before acting stupid.

Your outrage is not that ICE is acting illegally but that they are enforcing US law. Having local law enforcement launch some kind of insurrection is the kind of myopic nonsense you would have condemned a few years ago, even months. Heck, for the last 50 years the Imperial Presidency also was a bipartisan consensus. It looks different when it's your ox getting gored, but the solution is actually temperance, restraint…

I hear story after story about ICE kidnapping folks, wearing masks, not showing ID (in fact, being told _not_ to wear id). And story after story of those folks being held without the ability to consult a lawyer, or see their families, etc. And story after story of people being deported without due process. And story after story of judges saying very clearly that this is illegal. And ordering it to stop. And yet it continues.

So no, I'm not outraged that they are enforcing US law. I am outraged that they are breaking US law in the name of enforcing it. And I think they should be forced to stop it. And clearly, the judicial branch telling them it's illegal isn't getting them to stop.

Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#327

Post by tartoran »

adr1an wrote: post #283
speakfreely wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Ah, then it was a non-criminal kidnapping in a federal courthouse by unidentified police officers. That's so NORMAL!

This.. What is been happening lately is absolutely batshit crazy. Now anyone could mask up and arrest some key witness right from the courthouse posing as ICE agents, regardless of their status and nobody could bat an eye because ICE seem to have some kind of supreme auhority and no law applies to them, they don't need to identify themselves, even show their faces.

Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#328

Post by Tadpole9181 »

RandomBacon wrote: post #243
Tadpole9181 wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brad Lander saw unidentified, masked, ununiformed men who refused to speak, had no legal documentation, and would not identify themselves to anyone carrying a man against his will. I hope it's not against the rules to swear, but this cannot be stated clearly enough: That's called a fucking kidnapping. Did you not hear that someone pretending to be LEO attempted (and succeed in one case) the political assassination of…

> I hope it's not against the rules to swear Perhaps then, you should go ahead and read the rules? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Sorry, I was being rhetorical for emphasis. And as a slight acknowledgement of HN's more recent flag-happy state.

Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#329

Post by know-how »

Avshalom wrote: post #120
haunter wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's HN not /r/politics A lot of us doesn't come here to read about US internal politics

US internal politics are also US external politics and all of this shit has been cheerled by the biggest names in Silicon Valley. Hey remember when Peter Theil said we should get rid of democracy and Paul Graham said "we aren't going to like, stop giving money to people because of their opinions"? Pepperidge Farm remembers. Remember when the A in A16Z ran the futurist manifesto through a thesaurus? Remember when Musk…

[dead]

Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#330

Post by mlsu »

potato3732842 wrote: post #276
chneu wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like it's seriously Nazi shit. This is police with extreme powers. All they have to say is "We thought they were illegal" and nothing will happen.

>Like it's seriously Nazi shit. This is police with extreme powers. All they have to say is "We thought they were illegal" and nothing will happen. This is barely any different from "we thought we smelled weed". The problem isn't ICE. They are just todays's live action remake of the same story we've seen before. The problem is that there is no punishment, no consequences for all those people who, regardless of if thr…

It's very different. When a cop "thought he smelled weed," he still has to:

- detain you and tell you why he detained you

- get a prosecutor to press charges promptly, charges which have to be articulated in terms of specific statutes that your elected representatives wrote

- give you defense counsel to argue your case in court

- set a prompt court date to argue your case

- tell the public that you were put in jail, why, and the circumstances

- release those court docs to the public

- follow rules of evidence when presenting their case

There are abuses, but there are also a robust set of protections in place. If the cops thought they smelled weed in your car, and there was no weed in your car, you argue that in court, and it's really very likely that you will walk free. That outcome, for the most part, is why cops don't immediately put everyone with tattoos in jail.

This is very very different from the alternative, which is where a cop says he thinks your tattoo might look like MS-13, so you go to an offshore prison forever, with no visitation rights and no trial.

Those two outcomes are VERY different! For that reason, yes, the problem is ICE.

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