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Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

cnn.com

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Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#321

Post by netfortius »

xivzgrev wrote: post #243
Larrikin wrote: post #224

If illegal immigration is such a problem, why not fine businesses 5x salary for using the labor, for as long as it was used? There are a lot of systems in place to verify working status at this point. It eliminates any incentive to hire this cheaper labor willing to work for lower wages. The people coming will be coming for a variety of reasons but it won't be to take the jobs of the uneducated Americans

Shh! We can’t do that! You’d piss off the republican donors. Not to mention the American public when their grocery bill significantly increases. No, it’s much better to go harass people who aren’t in republican circles. Us vs them. Round up some illegals, make some examples, stick it to the democrats (who loosened the borders and are complicit). Trump is strong, and finally cracking down on all of this illegal nonsen…

[flagged]

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#322

Post by marcus_holmes »

notepad0x90 wrote: post #245

Politics aside, LA just can't seem to catch a break. Floods last year, fires earlier this year and now this. That said, what the current administration is doing is almost like they're following a manual other countries followed on their road to nationalistic decline and all the right people in places of power seem to know this. I wonder if they're ready for it? My observation is that the previous administration had f…

> The planned decline of America won't be like other countries because of post-WW2 "super power" repositioning of country and it's critical role in global trade, communications and finance. All of humanity might suffer, at least that's my fear.

Yeah, the decline of the British Empire is starting to look sedate and well-managed compared to this.

I'm sure because the USA was there to pick up any slack that Britain dropped, in a way that China is not doing with the USA.

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#323

Post by RangerScience »

csours wrote: post #229

Ahead of time, and from the inside, it looks and sounds like 'restoring proper order'. Afterwards, and from the outside, it looks and sounds like ... well read some history about attempts to 'restore proper order'. The outcome and progression is entirely and sadly predictable. It's been about 80 years since WWII. Are we doomed to repeat this on an 80 year cycle, when the last generation who went through this passes f…

Yes. AFAIK, this is exactly the (theoretical) cause for the "doomed to repeat it" effect of "those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it" - the death of the last generation who remembers it from the previous iteration.

So - maybe not doomed to an 80 year cycle, as life expectancy changes, and/or as cultural memory changes due to more/better records.

But in broad strokes... yes.

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#324

Post by kimixa »

ty6853 wrote: post #252
gamblor956 wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The e-verify system has been in place since 1996, and does exactly that: verify legal status of workers. It's required for federal contractors, but only about half of states require its use (it used to be more but some states like CA have actually passed laws banning its use).

It verifies the legal status of the documents submitted. Does little beyond encouraging identity theft of USCs that end up with unexpected tax liabilities.

But the estimated number of "illegal" workers is so much larger than the number of people whose identity is stolen on tax returns each year I'd suggest that the issue isn't so much with the tools already available, so much at people aren't using those tools.

Even if we had a perfect e-verify system that magically guaranteed the result was accurate, it probably wouldn't make a difference. Not while it's use is "optional" in states like Texas.

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#325

Post by b33j0r »

gamblor956 wrote: post #249
Larrikin wrote: post #224

If illegal immigration is such a problem, why not fine businesses 5x salary for using the labor, for as long as it was used? There are a lot of systems in place to verify working status at this point. It eliminates any incentive to hire this cheaper labor willing to work for lower wages. The people coming will be coming for a variety of reasons but it won't be to take the jobs of the uneducated Americans

The e-verify system has been in place since 1996, and does exactly that: verify legal status of workers. It's required for federal contractors, but only about half of states require its use (it used to be more but some states like CA have actually passed laws banning its use).

I worked for a company that verified I9’s and provided an eVerify integration for employers. I can’t explain what problem it solved.

It was a multi-million dollar if-statement that copied the expertise of the relevant law into a permanently legacy expert system.

Doing anything besides that would be illegal. But that also means there is no cross-referencing or vendor enforcement of fraud.

It did things like check if some tax-related status code was valid for the indicated home country of emigration. It didn’t do things like check against a national database for an SSN.

It basically punished people for filling out forms incorrectly or not being able to scan a document.

We didn’t get new regulations every quarter or ever. I dunno what the point was.

Edit: the everify step technically used personally identifiable information to contact a national database.

I guess my gripe is that I didn’t see how it could prevent fraud in any way a normal HR person wouldn’t have caught if it were to be caught. It’s a duplication of a process everyone was already doing.

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#326

Post by timewizard »

jxjnskkzxxhx wrote: post #223

There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state. The other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.

There's an entire division of the military that is literally police. They serve a similar function to their civilian counterparts. There's also intelligence and logistics units.

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#327

Post by JumpCrisscross »

gamblor956 wrote: post #258
leereeves wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's terrifying, certainly. One man was taken into custody for allegedly throwing a Molotov cocktail at an officer and a motorcyclist was arrested for ramming a police skirmish line. https://www.yahoo.com/news/kill-l-police-attacked-fireworks-... Los Angeles County Sheriff Robert Luna said "you had people who were...attacking police officers, deputy sheriffs and causing a lot of destruction." The 101 Freeway shut dow…

LAPD on Sunday night live with NBC 4 Los Angeles confirmed that most of the Sunday night looters were arrested. They also confirmed that most of the looters were part of a retail-theft gang attempting to use the protests as cover, and that at least one of the looters was actually a far-right-wing activist (unsuccessfully) attempting to stage a false flag operation to justify the use of military force.

> LAPD on Sunday night live with NBC 4 Los Angeles confirmed that most of the Sunday night looters were arrested

I trust this is true. But the comment would be stronger with a source.

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#328

Post by mindslight »

unethical_ban wrote: post #95
msgodel wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>lacks values I really hated when Fox news would say things like this and I hate it when individuals do. It makes it impossible for us to communicate. Just because the other side doesn't share your values doesn't mean they have none. You might say their values are evil. That's a different discussion, but they're rarely just reacting blindly.

I didn't say they lacked values. They clearly value authority and order above all else. I'm saying they lack the values I grew up believing were universal in this country.

> They clearly value authority and order above all else

No, they do not even get to claim order any more. This situation is being escalated by Trump in order to have a raging crisis for him to attack and drive even more division. Just like he did to the 2A/BLM protests, just like he did with the election lies culminating in the J6 protests, just like he did with his appalling anti-leadership throughout Covid. Trump doesn't possess the skills to actually tackle problems. His only real skill is slithering away from blame after he creates chaos and destruction. The fascists' only real value is now naked autocratic "strong" man authoritarianism. And the only reason they're still clinging to caring about the law is to assuage their own egos that the suffering they're reveling in is somehow justified.

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#329

Post by perihelions »

perihelions wrote: post #13
crmd wrote: post #4

I worry that, rather than de-escalation, one of the White House’s explicit goals here is to stage manage a Kent State-like demonstration of state force against left-wing activists that spreads to other cities. I sincerely hope I’m cynically wrong here.

You're not cynical; it's his plain, revealed character. He's been openly fantasizing about soldiers shooting protestors for years. He's asked his own defense secretary if he could do it for him, https://www.npr.org/2022/05/09/1097517470/trump-esper-book-d... ( "Former Pentagon chief Esper says Trump asked about shooting protesters" )

(Self-reply) There was also that infamous interview about Tiananmen Square, all the way back in 1990,

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/tiananmen-... ("Resurfaced Trump interview about Tiananmen Square massacre shows what he thinks of protests")

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#330

Post by timewizard »

motorest wrote: post #299
Larrikin wrote: post #224

If illegal immigration is such a problem, why not fine businesses 5x salary for using the labor, for as long as it was used? There are a lot of systems in place to verify working status at this point. It eliminates any incentive to hire this cheaper labor willing to work for lower wages. The people coming will be coming for a variety of reasons but it won't be to take the jobs of the uneducated Americans

> If illegal immigration is such a problem, why not fine businesses 5x salary for using the labor, for as long as it was used? The Nazis leveraged hatred towards minorities as a wedge to force their totalitarian control over Germany's state and society. They built up a ficticious enemy within, they inflamed society against that enemy, and proceeded to promise they would eliminate that enemy if the were granted total…

> they inflamed society against that enemy

They blamed them for pre-existing social problems. I feel the important context was that the government had to be significantly dysfunctional for the Nazi party to even exist.

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