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German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

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Re: German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

#321

Post by Brian_K_White »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #216
Brian_K_White wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's a pretty different concept being expressed by that one. The others are about getting away with something by just making the crime big enough that it's evaluated and handled in a totally different arena. The bank can still destroy the rest of your life, so you didn't get away with anything (setting aside bankrupcy and how you can actually usually start over, and that may or may not be all that terrible…

that's really not what it means, it means that if you owe the bank enough money (which is probably more than 100 million nowadays for any significant bank) then it is you in the position of power in relation to the bank, when the bank comes and says hey we need the money sure you have the "problem" that you need to pay it, but let's say you can pay it no sweat, but you'd rather not because reasons so you say hmm, I t…

Thank you. I didn't consider that aspect which is embarassingly obvious now.

Re: German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

#322

Post by watwut »

sojournerc wrote: post #318
watwut wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany does not extradite its nationals to the US at all. Not sure why would you expect this case to be so special that Germany would break its own laws.

You're stating this very confidently, but I don't think it's a blanket non-extradition policy. In the case of a potential death penalty, it's a clear no, but that's not the case here. https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/10-201.9-Ge...

German constitution, translation to English: - https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_gg/englisch_gg.h...

Article 16 (2) No German may be extradited to a foreign country. The law may provide otherwise for extraditions to a member state of the European Union or to an international court, provided that the rule of law is observed.

USA is not a member of European Union nor an international court.

Re: German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

#323

Post by mrguyorama »

immibis wrote: post #250
tyre wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matt Levine: “I find all of this so weird because of how it elevates finance. [Various cases] imply that we are not entitled to be protected from pollution as citizens, or as humans. [Another] implies that we are not entitled to be told the truth as citizens. (Which: is true!) Rather, in each case, we are only entitled to be protected from lies as shareholders. The great harm of pollution, or of political dishonesty,…

Obviously the solution is to buy one share in every company.

Which is why:

https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/sustainable-finance-r...

Re: German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

#324

Post by mrguyorama »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #64
lucianbr wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has been some years since VW had to give up cheating on emission tests. Were they beaten by US competitors during this time? I have not read any news about it.

They have kind of abandoned diesel engines, which the whole scandal was based around. It became clear that it would be impossible to create diesel engines which would comply with enviromental standards, which is a shame since they are more efficient and it is consumers who are losing out. They are still one of the main automotive conglomerations today. If anything American car companies are losing the market in Europ…

>It became clear that it would be impossible to create diesel engines which would comply with enviromental standards

Absolutely not "impossible" FFS, VW was cheating to avoid using a proper adblue system, which would have been perfectly sufficient. They could also have used a particulate filter and burn off scheme like some trucks but that would require significant engineering and probably doesn't work as well with a small diesel engine.

Orrrrrr they could have just done what the "cheat" mapping did: Run less lean. The entire point of cheating was to run very lean to make artificially high fuel efficiency figures. The cheat map for emissions would then run richer to kill off nox emissions.

I genuinely believe they still "cheat" somewhat. My 2018 GTI has a 2L turbo engine. The MK7 GTIs were the first to be EPA emissions rated at 89 octane gas, even though the power figures are still recorded using 91 octane gas. Previous GTI engines were EPA rated with 91 octane gas.

My tinfoil hat theory is that they run EPA tests on 89 octane so that it runs rich and reduces combustion temp, reducing nox emissions. Using higher octane fuel runs much leaner, and demonstrably produces better miles per gallon. They purposely chose to advertise a lower miles per gallon figure because, IMO, they couldn't pass emissions with the leaner burning 91 octane. Notably, low RPM (and emissions testing RPM) performance is utter garbage with 89 octane fuel, and the car becomes very stall happy, when at 91 octane it is very difficult to stall.

Re: German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

#325

Post by mrguyorama »

candiddevmike wrote: post #283
WalterBright wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sam Bankster-Fraud is currently sitting in jail, and Madoff died in jail. Elizabeth Holmes is sitting in jail, too.

They stole from rich and powerful people. Rick Scott was the CEO of a company that committed the largest Medicare fraud to date and never saw prison time.

Not only did he not see prison time, but republicans in Florida elected him to serve on the Senate.

Seems like a pattern honestly.

Re: German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

#326

Post by nickff »

exe34 wrote: post #310
nickff wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, but this point seems to be orthogonal to the matters being discussed here. Your point is roughly analogous to 'providing too much consumer surplus is rewarded with more customers'.

More customers means more income. More work on a fixed salary is just more work. Can you spot the difference?

You're adding assumptions that the employee is #1 on salary, and #2 not getting a raise for the additional work. You've changed the assumptions and the situation...

Re: German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

#328

Post by phendrenad2 »

einsteinx2 wrote: post #18
phendrenad2 wrote: post #4

[flagged]

> You see USA? This is how it's done. You mean like Oliver Schmidt, the VW exec that the USA sentenced to 7 years in federal prison all the way back in 2017 for his part in this scandal? Who was then sent back to Germany in the middle of his sentence and pretty much immediately released on parole by German authorities? But sure, USA bad or whatever.

Oh wow, you found an example. Bravo!

Re: German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

#329

Post by phendrenad2 »

ogogmad wrote: post #29
phendrenad2 wrote: post #4

[flagged]

What did Zuckerberg do? Maybe he did do something, but hearing "Boo Fuckerberg!" over and over again doesn't imply he's guilty of anything. It's similar to hearing "it's the Jooos" a bajillion effing times and then believing it without asking for any substance.

You're right, by using Zuckerberg as an example of a CEO that probably has some culpability (in my opinion), I've accidentally sounded like the "billionaires bad" memers. My bad.

Re: German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

#330

Post by exe34 »

nickff wrote: post #326
exe34 wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More customers means more income. More work on a fixed salary is just more work. Can you spot the difference?

You're adding assumptions that the employee is #1 on salary, and #2 not getting a raise for the additional work. You've changed the assumptions and the situation...

No, the original comment (now flagged) was about salaried employees not working hard enough. The argument was that they weren't working hard enough for their current salary. There was nothing about getting a raise. You made that up.
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