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Don't guess my language

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Re: Don't guess my language

#321

Post by Narishma »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #227
bmn__ wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a catastrophe. You punish the wrong person, and even worse, a channel owner will not even receive that signal! The vast majority of channel owners with English content is not aware what's going on. A friendly e-mail to the channel owner explaining the problem and asking to manually disable auto-translation is much more likely to achieve what you want. If you want to get rid of auto-translation on a systematic le…

Youtube really doesn't make it obvious that a title got auto-translated. I now realize that I've seen this happen before, with a video that had a different title on my TV than on my computer, but up until this very second I thought it was my TV's fault. Even being aware of this - how do I know that it's an auto-translation, rather than someone making AI slop in my native language, without watching the video?

One way to tell is when the video has text in the thumbnail. If it's in a different language than the title it has likely been auto translated.

Re: Don't guess my language

#322

Post by thaumasiotes »

matvore wrote: post #312
thaumasiotes wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Chinese languages don't seem to be in stroke order (no expert here) They are for me. In the Asia section, 中文 ["Chinese"] is listed first, followed by 吴语 ["Wu"] and then 粤语 ["Cantonese"]. Stroke order is first by stroke count and then by an obscure criterion that I don't know (and that, in my experience, Chinese people living in China also don't know), but stroke count is unambiguous and these are in order: 中 4,…

It is sorted FIRST by radical and SECOND by stroke order. This is roughly equivalent to the Unicode codepoint sort if you stay in the basic multilingual plane. The order also puts literary chinese afer wu Chinese, which breaks with a pure stroke-count sort: 中文 - 中 = 丨 + 3 strokes 吴语 - 吴 = 口 + 4 strokes 文言 - 文 = 文 + 0 strokes 日本語 - 日 = 日 + 0 strokes 粵語 - 粵 = 米 + 7 strokes

Dictionary lookup is done first by radical and second by stroke count. Collation is not. Stroke count is first.

For example, I have a book of 成语 stories that gives its table of contents in non-alphabetical order. (Since nobody understands the traditional ordering, I also have several such books that put their table of contents in alphabetical order.)

Here is the collation order in the book:

一 七 八 入 九 人 口 千 小 三 亡 大 不 专 天 井 见 毛 月 文 风 为 心 水 四 ...

Note that 三's radical is 一, the first Kangxi radical, and that 一 is listed first. Your theory is wrong. 三 isn't even first among the 3-stroke characters, which start (among these) with 口.

Why did you make up a false answer to this question?

Re: Don't guess my language

#323

Post by cessor »

It's easy to make Django react to "Accept-Language" headers, I love how the LocaleMiddleware supports it out of the box [1]. I implemented automatic language detection to show either German or English content and was surprised how many users hated it. We're located in Germany but a lot of people have their browser set to English for some reason, yet they still expect to see pages in German. Of course I had provided an explicit language switch but many users did not like the site guessing their language.

[1] https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/5.1/topics/i18n/translatio...

Re: Don't guess my language

#324

Post by jiggawatts »

wudu wrote: post #309
magicalhippo wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A related issue that has me fuming is when, after arriving at a page of interest from a search engine, a modal popup forces me to select the country I'm from, and then promptly redirects me to the homepage of the regional website. Some have a X button to close said dialog, but many don't which is really aggravating.

Google does this. I want to check out the new device they just released - "sorry, this product is not available in your country". I just wanted to read the specs, not buy.

Products don’t get to be informed about the factory in which they are made, or which shop they are to be sold.

Re: Don't guess my language

#325

Post by yonatan8070 »

doix wrote: post #9

My biggest annoyance is with Google. They know who I am, they know I am traveling, they know my language preferences (English) and yet I still get language based on my location on certain pages. I let you track me Google, please use it for some good UX and not just advertising.

That's so annoying, every time I'm on a new device/browser, Google and all their services start in Hebrew. Even though I'm signed in and have changed it to English a million times already. It's not that I can't read it, I'd just rather have everything in a universal language rather than a translation

Re: Don't guess my language

#326

Post by bawolff »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #319
bawolff wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Digraphs like Ch are common in a lot of languages. Wikipedia supports that fine on category pages. E.g. https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kategorie:CHKO_%C5%A0umava If you want to see bizarre sort rules, look up how french sorts accent characters.

> If you want to see bizarre sort rules, look up how french sorts accent characters. I tried to do this, but there do not appear to be any sources addressing this question. I did find a French Stack Exchange question asking for this exact information, and complaining that there are no sources (other than an uncited wikipedia page) that address it. There is no answer posted, but there is a comment from a French guy su…

Here is a blog post talking about it https://archives.miloush.net/michkap/archive/2004/12/31/3447...

Or a more technical version at https://www.unicode.org/reports/tr10/#Backward

Another case that is kind of weird is thai https://www.unicode.org/reports/tr10/#Rearrangement

Re: Don't guess my language

#327

Post by matvore »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #322
matvore wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is sorted FIRST by radical and SECOND by stroke order. This is roughly equivalent to the Unicode codepoint sort if you stay in the basic multilingual plane. The order also puts literary chinese afer wu Chinese, which breaks with a pure stroke-count sort: 中文 - 中 = 丨 + 3 strokes 吴语 - 吴 = 口 + 4 strokes 文言 - 文 = 文 + 0 strokes 日本語 - 日 = 日 + 0 strokes 粵語 - 粵 = 米 + 7 strokes

Dictionary lookup is done first by radical and second by stroke count. Collation is not. Stroke count is first. For example, I have a book of 成语 stories that gives its table of contents in non-alphabetical order. (Since nobody understands the traditional ordering, I also have several such books that put their table of contents in alphabetical order.) Here is the collation order in the book: 一 七 八 入 九 人 口 千 小 三 亡 大 不…

The Wikipedia sort for the languages is as I stated above, with Literary Chinese and Japanese between Wu Chinese and Yue Chinese. I explained why it was sorted that way, because radical is considered first. You could not explain why Japanese appeared between Wu and Yue because you insisted and continue to insist that radicals are not used.

I didn't say sorting is never done by stroke count alone. But I have seen radical+residual stroke count much more often than stroke count alone. Probably a result of the content I'm accessing. It's mostly Japanese and not intended for children.

The dictionary and non-dictionary sorting distinction that you make doesn't sound like a real thing. The audience, the country, and the number of items sorted are bigger factors. But you're not wrong in that stroke count is sometimes used alone.

Re: Don't guess my language

#328

Post by numpad0 »

magicalhippo wrote: post #264
elric wrote: post #63

Not accepting Accept-Language is one of my major pet peeves. What makes it worse is that many multilingual websites translate their language-switching buttons and the list of languages to the current language .... which is beyond fucking stupid and defeats the purpose. Wikipedia does this right. The button to switch languages is clear, using a universal multilanguage icon, and a list of languages (using the name of t…

A related issue that has me fuming is when, after arriving at a page of interest from a search engine, a modal popup forces me to select the country I'm from, and then promptly redirects me to the homepage of the regional website. Some have a X button to close said dialog, but many don't which is really aggravating.

https://xkcd.com/869/

Re: Don't guess my language

#329

Post by numpad0 »

vikingerik wrote: post #286
adastra22 wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sort rules are different in different locales.

It's a circular dependency: how do you sort and list the locales or languages for someone to pick one, when by definition you don't know their locale yet? You have to either make some best-guess approximation (IP geo, browser headers, etc) or use a locale-invariant sort, both of which will be wrong in some cases.

can't you just sort all as int? the codepages usually come roughly sorted, and while no one knows which of 檎 or 橙 comes first, I don't think it'll be particularly offensive whichever way a random app did, to most.

Re: Don't guess my language

#330

Post by tamirzb »

scotty79 wrote: post #178
doix wrote: post #9

My biggest annoyance is with Google. They know who I am, they know I am traveling, they know my language preferences (English) and yet I still get language based on my location on certain pages. I let you track me Google, please use it for some good UX and not just advertising.

My worst experience was that after arriving in a new country the Play store didn't show local apps because my Google account was assigned to the old country. And changing the country wasn't easy and meant abandoning the old country and it's apps. Since I travel a bit back and forth I ended up buying a second phone and creating an account for the new country.

This is indeed extremely annoying and I never understood why so many apps are configured to only be available in specific countries. Like what at all do they stand to gain doing this?

Google will then go on to complain about users installing APKs from shady sources but this practice pushes users to do so. I'm sure a decent amount of users ended up with malware on their phones just because they wanted to install an app that wasn't available in their listed country.

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