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You wouldn't steal a font

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Re: You wouldn't steal a font

#321

Post by casey2 »

close04 wrote: post #319
tptacek wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, those things aren't comparable. Truffles have a functional role in a dish. A typeface does not have a meaningful functional role in a document, compared to the high-quality freely-available alternatives. This is like complaining about some kind of specially-carved or dyed truffle.

> Truffles have a functional role in a dish Cheap "truffle oil" can fill that role as much as a free font can fill the role of a premium one. The real truffle and the premium font have a functional role for the few people who can tell either apart. For the rest maybe anything works, just put something on the plate or screen.

Not without adding fat

Re: You wouldn't steal a font

#322

Post by KronisLV »

tptacek wrote: post #250
davidivadavid wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. And those are the wordmarks I'm not talking about. Let me try it differently: Would you say typeface choice plays no functional role in the branding of companies that do rely on pre-designed typefaces? Vignelli's work would look the same with different fonts? No, you know that's just absurd. Or are we just equivocating on "functional" here? If we're talking about letter forms, certainly looking a certain way…

It's not a contrarian take. The argument I'm making is simple. If you're doing functional type design, such as setting a book or a magazine article or a user interface, you have a wealth of viable faces available that do not involve per-impression licensing; many are free, some even came installed with your computer. If you're doing logo design, everything is out the window anyways: a wordmark is an aesthetic stateme…

> If you're doing functional type design, such as setting a book or a magazine article or a user interface, you have a wealth of viable faces available that do not involve per-impression licensing; many are free, some even came installed with your computer.

This is well put and thanks for engaging with the argument in good spirits.

I imagine that fonts often matter a lot for brand identity and specific use cases (like programming) will also have specific aspects of importance (like ligatures in particular to a lot of folks and being able to tell symbols apart at a glance so IloO0 etc. don’t present issues, but for many use cases some utilitarian “good enough” choice will suffice, because there are a lot of competently made free fonts out there.

Re: You wouldn't steal a font

#324

Post by Thorrez »

nailer wrote: post #156
azalemeth wrote: post #4

That is an absolutely brilliant turn of events – strong evidence that the font in an anti-piracy campaign was itself arguably a copyright-infringing knock-off. Someone should sue FACT for copyright infringement – and refuse to settle.

The song is also stolen: it’s an unauthorised interpolation of one man army by the prodigy: https://open.spotify.com/track/65zwPZvsUCU55IpyWddFsK?si=bBf...

How does that square with this article, which says that the music was composed by Dutch musician Melchior Rietveldt specifically for the ad? (And that they failed to pay him properly for the use of the music.)

https://torrentfreak.com/rights-group-fined-for-not-paying-a...

Re: You wouldn't steal a font

#325

Post by llbeansandrice »

wvh wrote: post #313
tptacek wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is maybe nothing in the entire world that I am less sympathetic towards than the cause of font piracy / font liberation. You have perfectly good --- in fact, historically excellent --- fonts loaded by default for free on any computer you buy today. Arguing for the oppression of font licenses is, to me, like arguing about how much it costs to buy something at Hermès. Just don't shop at Hermès.

I don't know what a Hermès is or connotates, but I think the complaint is as much about the artificial and seemingly arbitrary restrictions as opposed to purely the price. You can try to create a Veblen good out of a digital artifact and play the all or nothing game, but it's proven very hard to restrict something which can be copied at no cost and with no limitations. When you buy expensive clothes, it would be sill…

It’s not uncommon to require clients to develop a relationship with the retailer before they’re allowed to buy the more exclusive goods. It’s not the same as the licensing analogy but it’s close.

Imagine needing to spend 300% of an item’s cost at the retailer before you’re allowed the chance to buy the thing you actually want.

Re: You wouldn't steal a font

#326

Post by TeMPOraL »

wvh wrote: post #313
tptacek wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is maybe nothing in the entire world that I am less sympathetic towards than the cause of font piracy / font liberation. You have perfectly good --- in fact, historically excellent --- fonts loaded by default for free on any computer you buy today. Arguing for the oppression of font licenses is, to me, like arguing about how much it costs to buy something at Hermès. Just don't shop at Hermès.

I don't know what a Hermès is or connotates, but I think the complaint is as much about the artificial and seemingly arbitrary restrictions as opposed to purely the price. You can try to create a Veblen good out of a digital artifact and play the all or nothing game, but it's proven very hard to restrict something which can be copied at no cost and with no limitations. When you buy expensive clothes, it would be sill…

> When you buy expensive clothes, it would be silly for the seller to try and license them to be only worn on Mondays, or at dress-code events, or based on your taxable income. People are not going to take your "license" seriously, even if you'd have some legal grounds and might well win a legal argument.

That's why the usual approach, especially in this industry, is to not give people choice in the first place - this is achieved by renting, instead of selling.

Clothes as a Service is already a thing. A CaaS with excessively specific restriction of use? Might not be - yet. No doubt someone will try it.

Re: You wouldn't steal a font

#328

Post by SoMomentary »

jsheard wrote: post #76
refulgentis wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general, AFAIK, the general assumption is every font is absurdly easy to steal, and that you'll do so before purchasing it. So it's de facto "free unlimited trial, free for personal use, pay for business if you have a soul and shame"

I would suggest not pushing your luck with webfonts though, because in that case you are distributing the actual copyrighted "code" of the font, not just the minimally protected shapes that it outputs. There are services which crawl the web actively looking for pirated webfonts on behalf of foundries (and their lawyers).

I had this happen to a client and even though they had both the web and print licenses they were hit with a 50k suite because the font file was malformed somehow. I'm not sure how it shook out but I hope they didn't pay a god damn cent.

Re: You wouldn't steal a font

#329

Post by whstl »

tecleandor wrote: post #111
grishka wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does one even use a font in an app without shipping it with the app? In a logo or something?

You can trace it, I guess...

What if you convert it to bitmap, instead of shipping a TTF/WOFF/etc? Does it still counts as shipping the font... or not?

Re: You wouldn't steal a font

#330

Post by bluescrn »

whstl wrote: post #329
tecleandor wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can trace it, I guess...

What if you convert it to bitmap, instead of shipping a TTF/WOFF/etc? Does it still counts as shipping the font... or not?

And if you generate a set of bitmaps/sprites of individual glyphs from the font (e.g. to use as a bitmap font in a game), is that different to shipping an image with more specific uses of the font baked in, e.g. a logo/title image?
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