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Apple has locked me in the same cage Microsoft's built for Windows 10 users

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Re: Apple has locked me in the same cage Microsoft's built for Windows 10 users

#321

Post by [deleted] »

GeekyBear wrote: post #114
frosting1337 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Even though it's not designed to" It is designed to, though. That's the thing. The line is arbitrarily drawn at not getting CLI/root access to your iPad. His point is that over the years, Apple has blurred that line a lot. You can use keyboards and mice. You can do all your daily computing on an iPad - email, spreadsheets, YouTube, whatever. But it's still locked down, for whatever reason, despite being a perfectly…

> It is designed to, though. That's the thing. The line is arbitrarily drawn at not getting CLI/root access to your iPad. An XBox's hardware is designed to run general purpose Windows software. However, it's been clear for a decade that Microsoft is selling the XBox as a game playing appliance, and has no intention of allowing you to run general purpose Windows software on it. If you choose to buy an appliance instea…

[deleted]

Re: Apple has locked me in the same cage Microsoft's built for Windows 10 users

#322

Post by com2kid »

Jenk wrote: post #172
onceler wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except in this metaphor, the "ebike" has en engine as powerful as a new "landcruiser", and attachment points that could allow quickly/easily adding extra seating or cargo capacity. That such a thing seems absurd illustrates how poorly the metaphor fits. The only reason that "iPads are just unserious computing devices for real work" is because Apple chooses to limit them. I have a laptop which I only rarely use as a l…

Win8's UI was terrible because Microsoft are terrible at UI, not because of the duality.

It was bad because they did research studies about the UI and then lied about the results of those studies so they could push the terrible Win8 UI forward.

I had friends who worked on the UX team for 8 and they reported general malfeasance all around. Microsoft was very scarred that tabled were going to take over the world (that was common wisdom in the trade presses at the time) and iPad sales used to be absurdly high. Win8 was the result of a scared company that needed to release something.

Re: Apple has locked me in the same cage Microsoft's built for Windows 10 users

#323

Post by drdaeman »

quitit wrote: post #212
matwood wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is marketing to everyone and not just the HN crowd. For many people their phone is their only computing device and for them an iPad is likely a big upgrade. When I have to proof photos or do a bunch of office type work, an iPad has become my goto device. When I'm programming, not so much. But I don't think that's a big secret to this crowd.

Are you telling me people use computers for different reasons? No I won’t believe it. My specific workflow is all that is important and if that doesn’t fit to every form factor of device out there, then the manufacturer of that device is a fraud who is deliberately trying to spite me.

> then the manufacturer of that device is a fraud who is deliberately trying to spite me

That's a weird conclusion, even for a sarcastic remark.

Is it a fraud - is the marketing deceptive? Possibly, yes, I personally believe it can be said so. I think it could be the case because it fails to mention the nuance that iPads aren't a good device for certain tasks. If an ad says "for everyone" without any asterisks and small print to it, it's valid to complain that this is not true. It could be the norm, but it doesn't change the fact that there's a gap that may affect uninformed person's decision making towards purchasing the device that is not a good fit for them. I mean, anecdotally that's what happened to the author after all.

Is it a deliberate fraud, though? I haven't been in a room when that ad was discussed, so I cannot possibly tell. I'm not versed in marketing, but I believe I've heard that it's quite a common practice to not include any negativity (aka "when or why you wouldn't want our product?") from marketing materials, for the money doesn't smell. I have respect to the people and companies that do so, for I perceive it as a signal they respect me (aka not wasting my time researching). But whenever it was actually discussed and dismissed ("Should we mention if developers should rather get a Mac? Nah, we want them to buy an iPad too, even if it's useless to them!") or if the idea haven't even been mentioned (e.g. if it's simply not a thing in Apple culture) is unknown to me.

Are they trying to spite anyone? I don't have any evidence that suggests so, so I find it highly unlikely. While Apple has different system of beliefs and values, drastically different from some freedom-loving software crowds, I don't think I've seen signs of any significant deliberate hatred towards those who don't share their values, or willingness to make their lives worse somehow. There could've been some less than great attitudes (but my memory fails me here, I only have a vague idea that I might've possibly heard or read something that didn't resonate well with me), but I don't recall anything seriously hateful.

All this said, I would love for us all have more discussion about ethics in marketing. Honest, open, and ideally without any sarcastic remarks (for they rarely help and frequently discourage civilized discussion).

Re: Apple has locked me in the same cage Microsoft's built for Windows 10 users

#324

Post by armada651 »

GeekyBear wrote: post #307
armada651 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The notion that consumers shouldn't be allowed to make decisions that are different than your own... THAT is user hostile. Having the choice is fine, but if there's no way to opt-out then it's not a choice. While far from perfect the Xbox One is a good example of the video game platform that offers an opt-out. And it works, it is one of the most secure gaming consoles on the market and yet it still offers consumers…

There is, in fact, a very simple way to opt out of buying an appliance. Don't buy it.

At some point that means not buying any modern technology because it's all been locked down. We're already most of the way there.

Re: Apple has locked me in the same cage Microsoft's built for Windows 10 users

#325

Post by idle_zealot »

threeseed wrote: post #97
idle_zealot wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The infuriating thing is that a huge number of those limitations exist as a few bytes that Apple does not let you flip, somewhere in the OS's code or configuration. It would be unreasonable to buy, say, a flip phone in 2007 and complain that it can't replace a graphics workstation. It didn't have the hardware for that workload. Today, it's the artificial nature of the limitations that make the device akin to a cage.

Yes because flipping those bits would make the iPad a Mac. And the whole point of an iPad is that you have a simple and consistent experience.

It's fine that Apple wants to ship with those bits unflipped. What's unreasonable is that Apple stops you from flipping them.

Re: Apple has locked me in the same cage Microsoft's built for Windows 10 users

#326

Post by armada651 »

pjmlp wrote: post #243
armada651 wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People aren't stupid but there is no way to escape this bussiness model unless you go to PC. And the PC is only begrudgingly still an open platform. If something is ever going to successfully replace the PC it will be a walled garden as well. I am appalled by how easily people dismiss the importance of open platforms as insecure and inconvenient. How will people ever learn technical skills if all the technology they…

They buy Android, Windows, Jolla, Pinephone,.....

How long before Android and Windows are also walled gardens that are completely locked down? They're certainly moving into that direction.

If you buy a device you should be allowed to fully own it. You shouldn't be forced to buy niche inferior alternatives or pay a huge premium.

Re: Apple has locked me in the same cage Microsoft's built for Windows 10 users

#327

Post by GeekyBear »

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #295
musicale wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just because it's commonplace doesn't make it any less hostile to users. Sure, game consoles are user-hostile. They're also great for playing games, and they tend to "just work" with less configuration and customization than a typical gaming PC. Less configuration tends to mean fewer problems and easier tech support, but the primary business reason game consoles are locked town is to make it harder to play unlicens…

It seems you're advocating for the benefits of having a door when the objection is to locking the door. By all means have a some kind of verified/sealed mode and refuse to support anything that's not in that mode--but there are negative consequences to normalizing a lack of control over the technology that people interact with. Take the crowd strike incident for instance. Millions of people unable to do jobs that the…

Crowdstrike is software that IT departments install in an attempt to mitigate the security threats that come hand in hand with having the freedom to shoot yourself in the foot.

In thus case, it was Crowdstrike that shot them in the foot.

Managing complexity has a cost that some people don't want to be bothered with.

They are allowed to choose an appliance instead of a PC, even if you would make a different choice.

Re: Apple has locked me in the same cage Microsoft's built for Windows 10 users

#328

Post by pjmlp »

armada651 wrote: post #326
pjmlp wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They buy Android, Windows, Jolla, Pinephone,.....

How long before Android and Windows are also walled gardens that are completely locked down? They're certainly moving into that direction. If you buy a device you should be allowed to fully own it. You shouldn't be forced to buy niche inferior alternatives or pay a huge premium.

One more reason to support Linux and BSD OEMs.

The Tuxedo, System 76, iXsystems, Pinephone, Jolla, SteamDeck (with native apps, not Proton),... of the world.

Re: Apple has locked me in the same cage Microsoft's built for Windows 10 users

#329

Post by Dylan16807 »

pjmlp wrote: post #245
Dylan16807 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hardware is fit for purpose. That's what makes the situation frustrating. It's a software lock.

That wasn't what it was being sold for, so no it isn't.

Interesting definition. I would have said what it's sold for doesn't matter at all when we're taking about whether it's fit for some arbitrary purpose.

I want to probe your definition a bit. Let's say a factory makes gears. All the broken ones get recycled. After all quality checks have been done, some of the passing gears are pulled off the line and redirected to the gift shop to be sold as paperweights.

1. Are unsold gears in the factory storeroom fit for purpose as gears?

2. Are unsold gears in the gift shop fit for purpose as gears?

2a. If yes, do they lose that fit at the moment of sale?

2b. If no, do they regain that fit if the factory has production issues and brings a crate back from the gift shop to sell as gears?

Re: Apple has locked me in the same cage Microsoft's built for Windows 10 users

#330

Post by mixmastamyk »

Closi wrote: post #306
mixmastamyk wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recommend the starlite if you don’t depend primarily on battery power. Personally won’t be going back to Apple’s golden handcuffs, and would never consider the user-hostile MS.

Operating on battery power is usually a pretty crucial requirement for a tablet.

It works for five hours or so on battery. But I mostly watch movies on it while plugged in.
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