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El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

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321–330 of 930 posts

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the USD was such a good currency, why does the US operate at a deficit?

A deficit is not a loan. The USD and the historical strength and faith on the US allowed the US to offer its own securities, not ones pwned by and with terms dictated by external entities.

the US borrows money. sure it can monetize its own debt at any time but that would have its own set of very high costs

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#322
post #43
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mostly because transferring BTC is very expensive. Every time I’ve done it I’m shocked at the fees that sites like Bitbuy requires. So if you’re going to do it then it has to be for a good reason.

This is fascinating to me because we were told 15 years ago (ish) that one of the main things that made crypto special (besides it being guaranteed finite unlike fiat) was that unlike say, Visa, it would be economic to use, even for small transactions, because The Big Banks wouldn't take their ~3% cut of every transaction. We all assumed that cut was determined by greed, but if Bitcoin is expensive to transact in now…

don't forget that when you use fiat you are also charged inflation, and your economic activity is kept inside their zoo for all kinds of benefits to the zoo keepers beside inflation.

this should all be added to that 3% card fees.

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#323
post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could . Ecuador does in fact mint its own US-dollar coins, and El Salvador could dedollarize.

Ecuador mints their own centavo coins, but they are not legal tender outside of Ecuador. They've never released their own $1 coin into general circulation – their ubiquitous Sacagawea dollars are minted in the US.

Sorry, I didn't mean to say they minted US$1 coins, just coins whose value is denominated in dollars. I think the biggest one is US$0.25?

US dollars are also not legal tender outside the US, with a few exceptions (I think including both El Salvador and Ecuador.)

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not in my lifetime Were you alive in the mid to late 90s? A string of balanced budgets and surpluses. There are new problems and no dot com bubble right now but most Americans were alive the last time we had balanced budgets. It is quite possible.

Yes, it does happen from time to time coincidentally usually in the lead-up to financial crises…

It became unbalanced by choice: a recreational war in the Middle East and tax cuts. The dotcom bubble helped, but those trillions in debt were not caused by people paying less capital gains tax on pets.com sales.

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#325

IMF gave them 1.4 billion to abandon the “experiment”: > The IMF made this a condition for a loan of 1.4 billion US dollars (1.35 billion euros). In December of last year, the IMF reached an agreement with President Nayib Bukele’s government on the loan of the stated amount to strengthen the country’s “fiscal sustainability” and mitigate the “risks associated with Bitcoin,” as it was described. —- I dislike cryptocur…

>a failure of the currency itself

this is a really ambiguous phrasing. Is bitcoin a "currency"? is el Salvador adopting bitcoin as a ___?____ a currency?

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#326

IMF gave them 1.4 billion to abandon the “experiment”: > The IMF made this a condition for a loan of 1.4 billion US dollars (1.35 billion euros). In December of last year, the IMF reached an agreement with President Nayib Bukele’s government on the loan of the stated amount to strengthen the country’s “fiscal sustainability” and mitigate the “risks associated with Bitcoin,” as it was described. —- I dislike cryptocur…

This wasn't a vendetta or a political maneuver. The IMF is intending to enforce stability on loan recipients but insisting on sensible policy. Per the article, the program was already unsuccessful and they wanted it removed as a risk factor.

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#327
post #271

IMF gave them 1.4 billion to abandon the “experiment”: > The IMF made this a condition for a loan of 1.4 billion US dollars (1.35 billion euros). In December of last year, the IMF reached an agreement with President Nayib Bukele’s government on the loan of the stated amount to strengthen the country’s “fiscal sustainability” and mitigate the “risks associated with Bitcoin,” as it was described. —- I dislike cryptocur…

What do you mean "gave" them 1.4 Billion? It's a loan so it has to be repaid. Usually, this is unsaid but with crypto people you sometimes have to explain basic financial conditions. Also, the loan was to bail them from risks of Bitcoin.

Being granted a loan of $1.4B with favourable terms under the extended fund facility is an enormous privilege. El Salvador is certainly getting far more favourable terms than would for their USD-denominated bonds. Putting it another way, El Salvador being given a line of credit that would have cost them hundreds of millions of dollars had they sold bonds to raise this cash through traditional means.

It's funny to have to explain basic government loan mechanics to this comment, given the derisive comment about "crypto people" needing basic financial concepts explained.

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#329
post #289

IMF gave them 1.4 billion to abandon the “experiment”: > The IMF made this a condition for a loan of 1.4 billion US dollars (1.35 billion euros). In December of last year, the IMF reached an agreement with President Nayib Bukele’s government on the loan of the stated amount to strengthen the country’s “fiscal sustainability” and mitigate the “risks associated with Bitcoin,” as it was described. —- I dislike cryptocur…

The very first IMF loan ever given was to France for reconstruction. One of the terms for the condition was to remove the only elected communist in their government from their position. IMF loans have ALWAYS been political

Arguably, both preconditions could have been simply intended to secure an eventual return on the loan. Having a communist in political leadership and allowing citizens to pay their taxes in Bitcoin both increase fiscal risk. I can understand the IMF wanting to reduce that risk as much as possible before providing a loan.

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#330
post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you able to point to a single case where Bitcoin was used as legal tender in an every day business transaction? By this I mean, can you give an example where someone ordered a cup of coffee with Bitcoin directly and not through a proxy?

100% this. Food, medicine, transportation, education, and everything else at or near the bottom of Maslow's pyramid of needs still cannot be directly purchased with bitcoin. The other punchline to the Bitcoin joke is that it's finite. In 120 years it will begin to evaporate from existence as more and more wallets are simply lost to time.

>The other punchline to the Gold joke is that it's finite. In 120 years it will begin to evaporate from existence as more and more gold chests are simply lost to time.

This is how insane that sounds

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